It doesn't take an MBA - or does it?

Hi Charles,

I think that it's important to understand that building a business is the constant application of effort, resources, learning, vision, purpose and pasion over a period of time. In the Jim Collins "Good to Great" books, and in many other business books, this process of getting better over time is reinforced over and over.

Thus, it's possible that a liberal arts student may start out at a disadvantage compared to an MBA student, in terms of planning growth, or leveraging business process thinking for building an enterprise.

However, an MBA student may never tackle some of the most difficult challenges, because they don't have the passion, or may not be willing to "jump in" until all the resources are in place.

I'd like to find someone doing a survey of social innovators after they have been involved for at least 10 years in one effort, to learn which of the four attributes they feel have been most helpful to them. In my own case, I have a liberal arts background, and one of the weaknesses of my organization may be the lack of someone with the business/MBA skills to help us find the resources to grow.

I hope lots of MBA students and alumni, as well as liberal arts students, from the Midwest are following this, because I want to invite them to come to the Tutor/Mentor Leadership and Networking Conference at Loyola University in Chicago on May 27 and 28 where they can meet you and attend a workshop that you will be leading. The conference web site is http://www.tutormentorconference.org

If we had not met in this forum many years ago, and if both of us had not been persistent in participating and building a relationship, we never would have reached the point where you are now an active participant in the work I'm doing.

I think this is a lesson for others. You have to invest time in network building. I'm not sure if they teach this in MBA school, or in liberal arts classes. However, if your goal is to do something that makes this a better world, it's essential to have people who will help you, and to have strategies that enable you to find and connect with such people.

Hi Daniel:

I don't have this whole business figured out, at least not yet, but i do have a suspicion that the significant difference between passion and resources is that passion is found on the inner world, and resources in the world around us. Quite what that implies, I'm not yet sure of, because my own biases (see my response to Val, below) come into play.

The "M" in MBA is for Master's degree. The people matriculating to my alma mater, Kellogg, 20 years ago came in with a range of undergrad degrees. It's still true, this year's class came educated thusly:

Business Administration 32%
Economics 14%
Engineering/Mathematics/Natural Sciences 35%
Humanities/Social Sciences 18%
Other 1%

That tends to make for a nice mix in classes. So mostly, I'd suggest that the continuing invasion is a good thing. But that it's not as if the grad school of business haven't been admitting liberal arts folks all along...

Hi, Val:

Nice to read you here! So -- what do you make of the mix? I still have the sense that there's something of a confluence of approaches that's needed if we're to see a real swing in the way the world takes care of itself. Maybe "liberal arts" vs "business school" isn't quite the way to sort it, but "passion vs resources" may be.

It seems to me that passion can start without resources and gainb them, but that resources are unlikely to buy passion...

But then, I'm very much a "liberal arts" type, as you know.

We've worked with close to 50 entrepreneurs starting businesses that serve the poor, and 40 Acumen fellows who are working alongside them to help them grow their businesses, and one of the key qualities that is not discussed in this piece is Leadership. The four ingredients listed in this blog truly are essential, and to varying degrees, everyone in the organization needs to have some degree of passion and expertise, but unless there is real leadership, none of these things add up, in our experience, to scalable social enterprises that can serve vast quantities of people and be built to last. Now what Leadership is is another question...http://www.acumenfund.org/get-involved/talent.html

Hi Yasmina!

I think most of us will agree that something (perhaps indefinable?) called leadership is an important component. We're taking for granted here that there are two modes we call "enterprise" and "social enterprise" -- do you think there are two styles of leadership which correspond with those two approaches, and if so, what are the specifics of "social leadership"?

Dear Charles & commentators,

It warms my heart and brings a smile to my face to read this entry. I myself am just about to graduate from an International Liberal Arts & Science College in the Netherlands and am enthusiastic about social entrepreneurship with my own little projects here and two past internships with Ashoka and BonVenture in Germany that consolidated my decision to work in this field at the crossroads between social and private sector.

In my opinion the passion and enthusiasm is clearly the prerequisite for sustainable social innovation, at least this is what my experiences with Ashoka have shown, as usually the innovative organizations and individuals have displayed the perseverance and passion to hone their approaches on reality's edge to an extent that makes them true social entrepreneurs. Oftentimes it is the necessary advice from business experts that is then required to scale their innovation in a feasible way.

By this I don't mean to say that individuals starting off in for-profit conventional business cannot become social entrepreneurs, yet I do believe that

a) passion is a more indispensable part of social entrepreneurs, and
b) that most social entrepreneurs actually do rather have this than the business expertise ingredient

although I quite certainly biased by my own Liberal Arts background, I am looking forward to learn more of the other side when advancing to my postgraduate studies in management in Cambridge this fall...(this then fully explains my smile and happiness when reading this discussion entry)

And although I am very well aware the fact that especially in management experience is often much more valuable than theoretical background, I find it fantastic that more and more opportunities arise for students like me who try to bring broader social interests and knowledge together with studies of business to attempt to build up a professional architecture for the social entrepreneurship sector.

Hi Vincent:

Nice to read you here. I notice on your blog that you are interested in both social enterprise and mindfulness, and would like to ask you how the two of them work together. I'm thinking of Trungpa Rinpoche's phrase, "meditation in action" here.

Val, it's great to see you here. Many of my staff and volunteers have NU and Kellogg backgrounds. We've formed a group at NUtutormentor.ning.com to draw students and faculty and alumni to the cause.

This group is an illustration of what we're all talking about here. So far, the group has little traction, and not a lot of activity. Why? We don't yet have a NU member with the "Passion" for building an on-line community that connects NU with the tutor/mentor cause, or with the skills/tech savy and/or time to spend doing this. Even if one of our current staff took on this role, would he/she still be doing this five or ten years from now? I think it is not just leadership, but the ability see a vision that others may not see, and the passion/skills to draw others to support that vision, that is essential.

Charles, I'm not sure it's fair to be expecting young people to have this combination of passion/experience. When I was in my 20s I had no idea I would be sitting here writing this. Now I'm in my 60s, and I've been doing this work for more than 35 years. With my experience, and knowledge, my passion and commitment has grown.

However, is still have many voids in my skills, because I learned on the job. It would be great if high schools and colleges created a vocational social entrepreneur path that would help young people sort through the various causes they might care about, then latch on to one that is really important to them. As they do this they could be gaining hands on experience by volunteering and working in organizations related to the cause, while at the same time be getting classroom knowledge that experts know would give them a more complete set of tools to grow into effective leaders.

I know there are many schools that teach generic leadership, but I'm not sure if there are those with a goal to produce leaders of volunteer-based tutor/mentor programs, with a goal of populating thousand of locations with alumni who knew how to learn from each other, and work together to overcome hurdles non can overcome by themselvbes.

What would be even greater is if the alumni of the same schools who were not the leaders of these enterprises, were trained to be proactive in reaching out to provide resources to support their peers, not just with occasional acts of support, but with the same on-going commitment to seeing a long-term goal achieved, as those who lead the social enterprises.

Thus, to end a too-long comment, "how do we train the supporting cast to be as committed to the goal of the leaders?" How do we get the captains of industry to be proactive in how they support a full range of SEs doing work that needs to be done, for the many years it will take for that work to succeed?

Are MBA programs preparing students for this role?

Always the long view, eh, Daniel? I can only applaud your clarity and dedication.

And yes, partnership, in counterpoint with leadership.

I'm not sure it's possible to "train" supporting cast to be as dedicated to the mission as the leaders. It's possible only to inspire, and to recruit those subject to inspiration! We need to be speaking to the vision with each hire, and to be selecting for a respondent sparkle.

It's pretty common for "if we build it they will come" initiatives is online social community to fizzle out. People come to spaces because there is something there for them -- people they respect, or wish to be respected by, work to do that they want to be part of getting done, information or access to be gained. Few people will check out a new site more than once if none of those things seem to be present, and even fewer will show up with the question "what can I contribute". So it's necessary to be quite focused.

Daniel,

I want to begin my response quoting you: "It would be great if high schools and colleges created a vocational social entrepreneur path that would help young people sort through the various causes they might care about, then latch on to one that is really important to them. As they do this they could be gaining hands on experience by volunteering and working in organizations related to the cause, while at the same time be getting classroom knowledge that experts know would give them a more complete set of tools to grow into effective leaders."

I've developed a "High School Social Enterprisers" program for public high schools (and eventually middle and primary public schools), that combines social entrepreneurship, leadership development and postseondary preparation. This provides a context for service/problem-based/experiential-learning, so dear to the hearts of educators. Social Enterprise/College/High School teams would work with existing or start-up social enterprises, undertaking projects and providing solutions as requested. I believe it can be a model for developing economic and community development leaders starting as early as eight or nine years of age. Fully realized it would be a college-high school-middle school-primary school mentoring model. I'm partnering with Belmont University and their Social Entreprenership undergrads as mentors/tutors and tapping FPOs, NPOs and local government for their resources. It is similar in many ways to a program started by Penn State in 2006 that has had some significant success.

So far, I've struck out on public funding so I'm considering adding a workforce development piece to it. It may become too unwieldy, but I have some business people who like my idea and think it could be an attractive investment as a social enterprise. I welcome any comments and suggestions.

Just a quick note to say I'm delighted to see potentisl collaborative links being made in this discussion -- both here and in Van Ajemian's "A possible synthesis?" post below. One of these days, I would like to host a "here's what came of it" event that focused on collaborations that emerge from our discussions here. Onwards!

Daniel,

I encourage you to browse http://tutormentorconnection.ning.com groups, and the articles at http://www.tutormentorexchange.net. See how we're using maps and graphics to try to illustrate our thinking and strategies. I encourage you to do the same and show your strategy on a web site. That's one way of "fishing" for the help you're looking for.

However, it's also a way of potentially working with me, and thousands of others, who can't find public funding for what we do because "it does not fit the guidelines".

Last night we held a year end dinner celebration for our Cabrini Connections program and one parent spoke for about 10 minutes about how the program, and the volunteers who have helped her kids, have been so important. She said about the program "they go the extra mile" and "this is truly a divine organization". One student alumni, who graduated from high school in 1997 and is now going back for a graduate degree, said "This program was my foundation."

We describe what it takes to achieve this at http://www.cabriniconnections.net/7-success-steps

If enough youth serving organizations who were aligned around similar goals, were using similar visualizations and web sites, to "educate the consumer, or the donor" maybe our collective weight could create more understanding and attention, and thus more of the on-going operating money that we each need.

I look at web sites of youth serving organizations all the time. I don't see many showing the path from when a youth joins them, to when a youth is in a job many years later, and I think this makes it harder for donors to understand, value and invest.

While it seems clear that attention to all 4 of these qualities are necessary to run any long-term endeavor, my take is that a social business must, by definition, focus on passion and contribution. We can split hairs indefinitely on the question of what exactly makes a social business more than business as usual, and how high we should set the bar on social benefit for said business to qualify as worthy of the moniker of "social business". The question is too squishy and evasive to be pinned down, though I would love to see some more efforts on finding approaches to measure such qualities!

Instead, it seems that while conducting any business, the character of the operation is defined by the myriad of tiny choices that must be made on a day-to-day basis. That is, a business created purely to generate massive profit may find themselves shifting towards social engagement after they have established themselves, or an organization founded on ideas of social enterprise may find their social mission fading in order to enrich the bottom line. Which is to say, businesses are breathing institutions, continuously being molded by their employee and leadership decisions. It seems to me that to have an organization that is genuinely a social business in the long-term, you need to have a bias towards individuals possessing more of the philosophy of passion and contribution than expertise and $, or the character of the business will inevitably shift towards a more standard business model (eventually abandoning social mission in all cases except for marketing purposes).

So yes, it would be great to see more of a merging of the minds of liberal arts and business and I think that, increasingly, some of the leading business schools are doing so - if the upswing in social entrepreneurial classes and degrees is to be taken seriously and not as a sign of an academic fad. So, invade away! Alternatively, perhaps we need those with liberal arts backgrounds to get to work on designing workable metrics to measure/rank the "socialness" of a business, and then engaging the public to reward those with high marks - expanding the sectors where social businesses would be competitive with "normal" business. I think that a social enterprise can only be "just a business" in an environment where it pays to be social.

Thanks for your thought-provoking discussions on Skoll! It's always an interesting ride to see where the discussion flows.

Hi Danny:

Sorry for that false start, Danny -- my rickety old laptop sometimes thinks a character is a control character, and weird things happen. Anyway, as i was saying...

Your paragraph:

<i>It seems to me that to have an organization that is genuinely a social business in the long-term, you need to have a bias towards individuals possessing more of the philosophy of passion and contribution than expertise and $, or the character of the business will inevitably shift towards a more standard business model (eventually abandoning social mission in all cases except for marketing purposes). </i>

gets to the heart of the issue, I think, and Deborah's question in the next post picks it up from there...

It takes all four. However without passion, there will be little meaningful long-term contribution. Expertise & capital are essential but without passion & contribution a social enterprise will quickly lose it's "soul". Any company can contribute "socially" as a marketing opportunity but only one led by individuals with a true passion & commitment can continue to make the sacrifices necessary to keep a social mission paramount & not be soley led by the bottom dollar.

Thanks!

I keep getting the sense that an important part of the "SE" puzzle is the fact that the purely "entrepreneurial" side of things can be motivated by the lower and more basic elements on Maslow's hierarchy of needs, whereas the "social" component has to draw its motivation from inspiration at the top, "self-actualization" level.

Again, my apologies if "Rob" is the wrong name, Robin -- when i'm actually reading your post before hitting the "reply" button, I see you're "Robin Molinski", whereas by the time I'm responding to posts, you're "robmolinski" -- a weird feature of the software settings we have here.

The challenge before us which is largely unaddressed is: How do we merge the two mindsets to arrive at the strengths of both?
How? When? How to equitably? Are we thinking of more multi-dimensional training or more merging of individuals who possess one or more of the 4 necessities? What we want is the expert honoring and tapping of the qualities for a prosperous outcome. Prosperous in the highest sense we know, sustainable.

Hi Deborah:

Bingo.

As Danny put it, we don't want the infusion of business advice to shift the character of the business "towards a more standard business model (eventually abandoning social mission in all cases except for marketing purposes)" -- we want it to enhance the passion, not deform it.

I think something similar can be seen in the world of entertainment law -- there are plenty of artists who are idealistic, who feel their gifts are gifts and would like to share them as such -- and there are plenty of agents willing to teach them that the world around them is a world of competition, and that they need to bend to the rule of copyright laws and digital rights management.

And then there is Nina Paley, whose animated feature Sita Sings the Blues is one of the most glorious, beautiful movies have ever seen, and who offers it under a Creative Commons license, which allows an authentic merging of "regular economics" and "gift economy".

http://www.sitasingstheblues.com/

So perhaps part of the answer to your question lies in the invention of legal forms which enhance social entrepreneurial approaches, as the Creative Commons licenses enhance creative sharing...

Agreed,

Completing an MBA degree and having a passion for work in social enterprises and the environment, I believe MBA programs could do a great deal more to offer multi-dimensional trainging which assists an individual in discovering and developing all four of the necessities mentioned by the author. Recently, the Dean of our SBA met with other Deans of some of the most well known SBAs from across the U.S. to discuss this topic. Even the university which I attend, which is well known for its attention to sustainability and providing more of the passion and contribution traits mentioned in this post could do more towards turning out well rounded graduates. It is encouraging though to hear of schools discussing and possibly addressing holes in their curriculum.

I probably shouldn't be allowed to participate in this discussion because I only have a High School education and that was 36 years ago. I believe as long as academia continues to pump out automatons that are focused on how to make money and get their share of the goods, rather than how to make the world a better place, we will continue to have a business climate that is effectively and efficiently sending humanity to its doom. Let's not confuse passion with heart or conscience with contribution, let's not confuse education with expertise, and let's not separate resources from suffering and waste. The majority of our economy or GDP really comes down to resource waste... The economy we depend on is killing us and the planet... yet we still educate our children to fit in and make the economic engine work for themselves. When children, young adults and adults learn either, by accident our through introspection to discern and think for themselves they choke on the hypocrisy, and lunacy of the economic engine we have created and there is no closing the window of passionate understanding and vision. We must teach children and adults to think and to act with their hearts and to realize that this pale blue dot in space called Earth is our only home and all that we know happened right here. We need an economy based on providing nutritional, fresh food rather than tasty poison, on manufacturing of helpful, useful products that do not plunder and enslave, and we need to empower the mindset to help rather than ignore our fellow creatures of this planet. We need a revolution in academia where value of life is more important than value of money or money making. Thirty percent of 9th graders across the country drop out of school. Ask your selves why? People say our education system seems to have lost its passion for making the world a better place and because of diminishing resources it has lost its expertise to inspire children to make a contribution for the benefit of all species of life on this pale blue dot...

Good, and passionate points! I couldn't agree more in some regards! I think that in many ways the whole social business movement both advocates for, and is completely dependent on, a cultural revolution in how we do business. In part, this conversation is highly related to the recent Social Edge conversation on what it really means to be "poor"...

http://www.socialedge.org/[…]/?searchterm=poor

...in the sense that there sure seems to be a HUGE disconnect between the fields of psychology and business management/economics. We know that humans aren't wired to get lasting pleasure or satisfaction out of getting gobs of cash, yet we keep teaching business students how to chase for the biggest bottom line solely. Or commenting on how the way to attract the best leadership talent is through huge salaries and signing bonuses (or complaining that social enterprise won't be able to attract said talent with its relatively modest paylines).

So, to restate more explicitly something I said in an earlier post, it seems like the whole promise of social enterprise completely hinges on bringing this sort of cultural shift about. (we want social businesses to compete on the same playing field as business-business, yet the only way that it can ever do in most markets that is if society as a whole starts recognizing the value in social good that these institutes can bring, and then brings their $$$ to these businesses as a consequence of that understanding. This discussion seems relevant here: http://www.socialedge.org/[…]/is-a-social-economy-really-possible)

Its a start to see some academic business programs start to be "socially minded", but I often feel like the elephant in the room is the question of what can the socent movement reasonably do to actively shift popular perception and popular ideas about business' responsibilities. Which organizations are taking this on as their primary mission versus the many organizations that are attempting to lead by example (i.e. founding social businesses). What are proven, established, and effective ways of teaching this? Where are the "Consumer Reports" of social enterprise, directly comparing and facilitating conscientious decision making for the mass public who don't have time to research every provider of peanut butter or breakfast cereal available in the free market?

One of the 'consumer reports' of social enterprise is the EthicMark and the textbook for this learning is Ethical Markets. Both initiatives as well as others are lead by Hazel Henderson, futurist & economist. ethicalmarkets.com

Thanks, Deborah:

http://www.ethicalmarkets.com

Danny,

I feel part of what is missing is "market research" mentality. For instance, I've gone to the B-school at local universities to suggest that a way to differientiate themselves from others would be to create student-led projects that demonstrate how much they are learning at that particular school.

I've suggested that students survey alumni of the business school or MBA program, to learn what alumni are already doing to support efforts to help poor kids move from birth to work. As they collect the information, they could host it on web libraries, like the one I keep. http://www.tutormentorconnection.org/[…]/Default.aspx

Then, they could develop marketing plans to share this information with the alumni body, with a goal of helping those already involved learn from each other, and grow what they do each year, while also encouraging other alumni to learn and duplicate these good ideas in other places.

Using a variety of metrics and scorecards, the students could show growth in market-share of alumni involved from year to year, and could publish this in Forbes and other business magazines to boast how well the alumni of their university are socially involved, and how well the students at that university are learning ways to encourage and increase social engagement.

So far, most people have been too busy to even take time to understand what I'm suggesting. So I've suggested that a grad student, or student doing independent study, could take this on as a project, like someone in market research might do, and become the manpower needed to develop the information needed for faculty, administrators, and alumni to buy into the project.

I don't have anyone doing this as well as we want to see it done. But you can see small examples of this at these links:

http://tutormentorconnectio[…]nship-at?xg_source=activity

http://jhickey50.wordpress.com/

Such projects, and partnerships with my organization, could be taking place from high schools and universities all over the world. The result might be the education of a new generation of alumni, who have learned how, and why, to be socially engaged business leaders.

Thanks for your contribution, CW -- and no need to apologize. Robert Frost once said that knowledge accrues to us all through our lives, like burrs on a walk through the fields...

*

The more radical your critique of the "state of the world", the more necessary a social entrepreneurial approach to *all* business becomes.

Since different people are at different points in their assessment of severity of our situation, however, the appeal for change needs to be pitched at different levels of intensity to "reach" people at different points along the curve...

I love Robert Frost's work... "There are two kinds of teachers: the kind that fill you with so much quail shot that you can't move, and the kind that just gives you a little prod behind and you jump to the skies."~Robert Frost~

I feel this topic's overly abstract and obvious, it's already a fact that all 4 components are needed to run social enterprises early on. As to what extent of depth is needed for each or how to merge mindset, I'm not sure if it's helpful to conceptualize it. It overlooks the reality that social enterprises are run by a team with complementary strengths.

MBA is certainly advantageous but never a prerequisite, a great number of social entrepreneurs learn critical business expertise as they build their enterprises, the important thing is that they know what business expertise they need to learn or business areas they need support with to scale up.

Hi Jude:

Heh -- my opening salvos are always a bit simplistic, to be sure -- the thing is, there's often a lot we can learn from the conversations that follow. So let me ask you, what's the insight-- or unresolved issue -- that you see as crucial to our understanding, and yet frequently missed or unresolved?

Maybe it can be a part of the "four attributes plus leadership" issue we're discussing here -- or maybe it cn be the topic for a future SocialEdge event -- or both...

One of the organizations I've been privileged to be affilated with is the YMCA. One of the things that impresses me about the Y is that the national group is a RICH source of truly excellent resources.

The Executive Director of our Y used to remind the board, when we got a bit carried away with our passion for good works "No money, no mission."

That message is sometimes received with hostility by those who think the good intentions of the group should somehow magically cause resources to become available, but it speaks to a core truth -- if we don't have a way to sustain our organization financially, none of the seeds we plant now will likely come to fruition.

One may not need an MBA to look to the finances of an org, but every org needs people who can look at the money side of things and be able to forecast which resources are going to be available, where needs are going to be, and strategize where and how to obtain and make available what's necessary.

The most successful initiatives I've been part of have all had this in common: Folks on staff who are energized, rather than offended or threatened by the request by potential sponsors for a coherent "business plan."

When I wanted to have more impact on the structures of society after 5 years as a high school teacher and 3 more in community development non-profits, I knew an MBA would be an exercise in drudgery since I'm only an average student when it comes to buckling down and learning things that don't interest me (like finance). Instead, I attended the Harris School for Public Policy at the University of Chicago. I enthusiastically developed quantitative and analysis skills as part of studying the research and best practices of social entrepreneurs currently in the field. I took classes at the school for social work in my field of interest and many of my classmates took courses at the business school.

This sounds a lot like the merging of the two mindsets to arrive at the strengths of both that you are talking about. I highly recommend an MPP for folks wanting to go this route.

Hi Rebecca:

Your approach sounds as if you've woven together "the two mindsets to arrive at the strengths of both" exceptionally well.

What most intrigues me about your post is my sense that some of what, as you say, would be "an exercise in drudgery" in one context turns out to be something you can "enthusiastically develop" in another context. And framing -- in a way that contains the "passionate commitment" element -- seems to be the key that has let you do this...

Many of the discussions have talked about the type of passion/skills/vision we want people to have either to lead/participate in social enterprise, or to support it as a consumer/investor, etc.

The reason I advocate mentoring is that any of us can connect with young people and teach these concepts. Many probably already are. However, are any of you thinking of the "business plan" where people with ideas and experiences that are shared here and other places on Social Edge, are connecting with young people all over the world, as early as elementary school, with a goal of mentoring and teaching these ideals so more kids will enter their adult lives with them already hardwired into their habits?

Where do we all meet after this discussion is an archive, to work on developing or implementing such a grand strategy? This strategy map could be used as a starting point for any company, MBA program, or Liberal arts program to connect with youth in the community around the company or college to mentor these concepts. http://tinyurl.com/tmc-strategy-map

If others have already developed their own strategy maps, please share them so we can learn from each other the way scientists and researchers do in other fields.

One of the issues I've encountered in trying to engage young people is that very few organizations plan to make work available to such folks.

I know it's a chicken-egg issue, (it's understandable that organizations generally depend on stable adults with free time during the day as the core of their volunteer corps) but there's nothing worse than bringing a bunch of bright-eyed young folks to a venue where they have been promised the opportunity to "make a difference" only to find that the organization doesn't really have a plan for what to do with them. Waiting around for a chance to be useful isn't engaging for anybody.

So before we try to engage them, we probably need to think hard about exactly what we are going to give them to DO!

You're correct about the "chicken-egg" thing. There's many pieces that need to fall in place. However, I divide the day into three time frames. 1) traditional school day; 2) 3-5 afterschool; 3) after work hours

The program I have led for many years engages workplace volunteers who come to our center and work with kids from 5:30 to 8pm on week nights and on weekends. By operating in time frames when these volunteers are available it opens up a whole new range of potential volunteers who can connect kids directly to the world of work.

By collecting and sharing links to more than 200 youth programs in Chicago, and many more in other cities, we provide many models that people can learn from in thinking of a) how do we make these programs available to kids; b) how do we support their basic efforts to keep kids and volunteers connected; and c) how do we help each program constantly improve what they do to engage kids and help them to careers.

If one thinks of these as "retail stores" for mentoring and learning, then each needs many products and services to attract kids and volunteers. In the business world, retail companies support hundreds of stores in many locations, by the work of teams in their central offices.

Why not create a "virtual" central office where many people with common goals are working together to support the work of thousands of volunteer-based youth development, mentoring and learning programs?

This video describes a project that we've been part of with the Education Department of Edgewood College in Madison, Wisconsin, for 10 years.

http://www.cabriniconnectio[…]edgewood-college-experience

What makes this work is that the planning for what happens, and even some of the marketing to motivate our teens to be involved, is done by the faculty and students at the college, working with us as advisors.

If the student involvement in a non profit were part of a shared vision for what the university, student and non profit want to see achieved, then the students could come to project with a purpose already in mind, and could leave it with a "hand off" to the next wave of students who come after them.

It's unrealistic for the non profit, which is usually understaffed, to be able to create meaningful projects for students who will only be with the organization for a short period of time. It's redundant when hundreds of non profits who do the same type of work, have to go through this thinking to find a fit for student groups. If the school encouraging student involvement were building a library of projects that had worked in the past, or were in long-term relationships with the non profit, then the student involvement could take on a growing level of meaning and impact.

I'd love to find more universities who work with us the way Edgewood College has, and who would say "we can do even better than that."

I just want to focus in on that first statement:

QUOTE: a project that we've been part of with the Education Department of Edgewood College in Madison, Wisconsin, for 10 years. :UNQUOTE

If I didn't know it before, I now know from talking with Dan just how important that "for 10 years" he mentions is. How can we deepen our collaborative commitments to the point where our outcomes don't stop at an enthusiastic beginning, but keep on building so that 10 and 20 year marks are achieved with cumulative success and growth?

Hi Charles, for something entirely new and different, Carlton is onto it. 'We need to empower the mindset'(for merging of mindsets) "as long as academia (read: MBA route) continues to pump out automatons focused on how to make money...rather than how to make the world a better place' or how to take care of the planet, we're not going to get very far. We don't get much change when only consumers do it, (ie, recycling) or when industry fails to act (on curbing pollution etc,) in chasing the biggest bottom line. And also, as anybody who witnessed the financial collapse knows, more and more can equal less and less.

Danny's right, we need a 'cultural revolution in how we do business' and I'd go one step further and say, what's really needed is a leadership revolution, (in being socially minded) it's where the merging of the mindsets lie. The main difference between approaches is that a business mindset allows for a very structured, external focused approach, and a liberal arts mindset allows you to take on your inner journey to find a life path that fuels the passion, so to merge the two mindsets would be to revolutionize not just business practices and governance, but also educational systems too. And you know the way to do it, is in mixing it up in the creation of a free culture, (as a cultural revolution) - in the free exchange of ideas and actions - to harness the strengths of both.

You know Charles, the real difference between business and social business, is the social conventions around them, drawing artificial boundaries between people. As anybody who attached to social enterprise knows, it's about getting out of your comfort zone and pushing others out of theirs. Valerie's right, it's about getting people energized, to blur the boundaries so that "all" business can become social. Hey, by the way, I love Sita Sings the Blues.

The main difference in my mind between business and social business is this... Business intentionally ignores what economics label as "negative externalities" and social business attempts to clean up that mess and "right" the ship. Ni the USA there are approximately 6 million corporations with employees and 1.2 million charities. And the mess just keeps getting deeper every day.

Hi Carlton:

QUOTE: The main difference in my mind between business and social business is this... Business intentionally ignores what economics label as "negative externalities" and social business attempts to clean up that mess and "right" the ship. :UNQUOTE

I'm coming to think the main difference is that business gains its momentum from necessary concerns for the self, hence, getting paid on the individual level, making a profit on the level of the corporation, whereas social business depends for its momentum on inspiration and passion, ie concern for the other -- which has a very different feel to it.

But I'm slowly working my way towards a longish post on that topic, in response to all the recent comments here, and I'm not "there" yet.

Thanks again for your contribution...

Hi Charles,
        Good to be here once more .
It would be great if I could acquire in an intensive year of an MBA program such as described by Rebecca Cynamon -Murphy who attended the Harris School for Public Policy
in order to acquire the appropriate quantitative and analytical skills that would take my Surplus Educational Supplies Foundation to another level; so that I might become more qualified in such matters possibly turn my charitable foundation into a cash cow and avoid the prospect of it becoming if I don't get the money it will end up being a dead duck. For the forseeable future that is not likely so it remains a start up company run by an entrepreneurial risk taking and creative liberal arts graduate. Of course business expertise is useful so I'd be glad to talk with any in this forum whose skills gained from MBA study could seriously contribute to the development of an initiative which began five ears ago.
   
    
  
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Sign InRegisterDavid Hanschell's charity appeal has grown beyond his wildest dreams

« Previous « PreviousNext » Next »View Gallery"The support I've received from the people who have helped keep the containers full has been wonderful"
David HanschellADVERTISEMENTPublished Date:
21 April 2010
By Craig Borland
Editor
AN APPEAL set up on Bute five years ago to send unwanted educational material to Caribbean communities devastated by poverty and natural disaster has been given a new home on the mainland.

David Hanschell's Surplus Educational Supplies Foundation (SESF) is moving from a trailer in the grounds of The Boatyard in Port Bannatyne to a new industrial unit in the north of Edinburgh.

But that doesn't mean the appeal is turning its back on the island - it's simply, David says, that it has got to the point where his storage unit on Bute can no longer cope with all the surplus materials being donated to the cause.

Three fully loaded containers of surplus material from Bute have been sent out to the hurricane-ravaged island of Grenada since David, a former teacher at North Bute Primary School, set up his appeal five years ago.

But the SESF has long since begun to widen its net beyond Bute alone, and has taken in donations from several local authorities throughout central Scotland - making the offer of a central storage and administration facility in the capital city too tempting for David to resist.

"Edinburgh City Council has let me have an industrial unit in a new business centre in the north of the city rent-free for six months," David said, "so during that time I'll be based there.

"But I'd like to thank Martin Stirling and all those associated with The Boatyard for their help over the last five years.

"Martin has bought my local container from me, but he has also been a tower of support, and the support I've received from the people who have helped keep the containers full has been wonderful.

"I never could have imagined when my class of primary three, four and five pupils at North Bute, and the school itself, delivered five cardboard boxes of new stationery to Grenada, that it would have grown to the point where I've got nine ocean-going containers waiting to be delivered.

"None of it could have been done without the support of the people who've allowed me to do this work - and to have a lot of fun in the process."

David is also shifting the focus of his efforts to the port of Bluefields, on the Caribbean coast of Nicaragua - where he visited last year, and discovered, in his words, people who are "absolutely desperate" for the kind of materials the SESF has collected over the years.

"There's an endless stream of waste out there, and I'm just mining a trickle," he continued.

"I believe it's unsustainably profligate waste, and I believe Scotland should be ahead of the game in getting the good of it."

The goodwill directed towards David's efforts hasn't just come from Bute - although the island continues to contribute to the appeal, most recently through a donation of crockery and other items from the United Church of Bute.

Babcock International has offered to store the SESF's containers, inventory the contents and refurbish them for shipment if required, while Forth Ports are accommodating containers free of charge before shipment.

Duncan Adams Transport, also of Grangemouth, has been involved in the appeal, through its collection and storage of donated items from around the country, and continues to work closely with the SESF and its efforts.

"I know people will say 'there he goes again'," David added, "but everyone on Bute has been absolutely brilliant, and I just want to say thank you to them all."

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Last Updated: 21 April 2010 4:39 PM
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Always a pleasure to read you, David -- though I would request you to "trim" any extraneous materials from the newspaper if you post the text of an article here again <grin>.

There's not a great deal I can do, beyond echoing your appeal for readers with skill-sets that are complementary to yours to contact you and collaborate...

best wishes, as ever.. Charles

I am a liberal arts graduate with an MBA and currently teach in business programs at Loyalist College (www.loyalistcollege.com) in Belleville, Ontario Canada. I think it's important for our business students to learn business fundamentals but also recognize how significant social responsibility is to all businesses, their employees and the communities in which they reside.

I try to focus on social responsibility and sustainability concepts so our graduates have attitudes, knowledge and skills above and beyond dollars and expertise. As business graduates I think they need to have all four (resources, expertise, passions, contribution). Why do we have to separate the two groups (MBA vs. liberal arts) and what they believe? Perhaps it's time that we ensure that our graduates from business schools at all levels of study (college, undergraduate and graduate) recognize and practice all
four.

Based on my limited view in my classrooms, it appears to me that the upcoming generation is quite socially aware so why not harness their passion while they study business. Now is the time to shape the minds of business students so they are just as focused on passions and contribution as they are on resources and expertise.

We have been fortunate this year as many of our business students have been socially focused. Their interest in improving the community while developing a foundation in business has been remarkable. One such example is their involvement with SIFE (www.sife.org); in their first year on Loyalist's campus they managed to get an invitation to the Canadian National competition that just concluded.

I share the same idea with Daniel Bassill in regards to colleges (and high schools) creating a social entrepreneur path. I would love to champion such a program of study but want to learn more in this realm. I am open to any ideas people may have in moving forward with this idea.

Carlton Jackson's comment: "I believe as long as academia continues to pump out automatons that are focused on how to make money and get their share of the goods, rather than how to make the world a better place, we will continue to have a business climate that is effectively and efficiently sending humanity to its doom." is well taken. I try very hard to provide my students with a balanced approach but often wonder how many other faculty members and classes in business schools around the world continue to focus on the almighty dollar.

I agree with Danny Ducat's "...yet we keep teaching business students how to chase for the biggest bottom line solely. " and think we need to focus on the triple bottom line with our business students. There are lots of frameworks out there but do business schools spend much time examining them in their curriculum?

Thanks for such stimulating commentary. I find it challenging to stay on top of it all but when I get a minute to read I am always amazed at the ideas and great people behind them. I like to share these ideas with my students when I get a chance. This is my first time I've commented and I look forward to 'chiming in' some more.

Jonathan

Jonathan, I'd like to take you up on this point. "I would love to champion such a program of study but want to learn more in this realm. I am open to any ideas people may have in moving forward with this idea. "

I encourage you to browse the articles in this section of my web site, under the title of Business School Connection. http://www.tutormentorconnection.org/[…]/Default.aspx

I've been trying to find owners for this concept for more than 10 years, yet at the business schools I approach they all are "too busy" with their own things and keep saying "find a younger faculty member".

What I'm describing is a competition among business schools, where students create and implement on-going marketing plans which aim to increase awareness and the flow of dollars and volunteers to volunteer-based tutor/mentor programs in their own community.

Imagine if teams from Oxford, Harvard, Northwestern, Stanford, and lesser known schools, were each using their learning to create public awareness that draws critically needed resources to k-12 programs in their communities that help future youth become students at these universities.

It only takes one team of students to move this idea to reality and that team can come from any college in the world.

I told my children (one of whom went to Northwestern) to take courses in high school and college that provided "job skills" and avoid courses that were focused on "policy studies". I also told them to not worry about grades if they felt that the course would help them in establishing their career. This advise worked well in our case.
My advise was based on managing hundreds of people and reviewing thousands of resumes. I worked with people and reviewed the resumes from all the top named schools including Princeton, Harvard, Northwestern, MIT, etc. In many cases, I could not determine what the person could actually do based on their resume. Students from top named schools were a little more successful but not remarkably so (My father told me this would be the case based on a major study of Bell Labs employees where he worked). I felt that people who understood the job that needed to be done were often the most successful. I did not need people who wanted to teach what they were interested in when it did not pertain to what we were doing.

Daniel,

I shall take a look at the section you suggest on your web site.

Thanks,

Jonathan

Hi Jonathan:

Thanks for your post, and for picking up on Danny's comment:

We know that humans aren't wired to get lasting pleasure or satisfaction out of getting gobs of cash, yet we keep teaching business students how to chase for the biggest bottom line solely.

Again, that gets right to the heart of the issue that has come up for me in the context of this discussion. It's an issue that I carried with me into my presentation at Dan Bassill's Tutor/Mentor Conference last week, and i don't think I've got it sorted out quite yet, but I'm working my way towards it.

The issue is partly one of motivational source -- there are things we can acquire by self-interest, the need for a paycheck, etc, and things that require another kind of motivation altogether -- inspiration, if you like, or passion. But those aren't just two kinds of motivation, so that we can just say, "yeah -- it helps to have a bit of both". They are radically different, I'm beginning to think, in that they spring from opposite ends of Maslow's "Hierarchy of Needs".

But i'm only just beginning to see the implications of that fact.

Great conversation here! We are just starting an activist Ph.D. program at Rutgers in Camden, NJ that is Public Policy + Law + Business with a focus on Community Development. Social Enterprise is the glue that brings us all together. Whether it is microfinance, small business or entrepreneurship, social justice and community sustainability - you can't find solutions and build knowledge without multiple pieces and drawing on multiple strengths. Social enterprise is a key strategy that has flown under the radar of too many urban places as a potential economic development and community development strategy. To me it is the only sensible and realistic strategy for successful business in the underperforming urban core where the market refuses to enter unless heavily subsidized. This is a key alternative.

I applaud Rutgers recognition of the need for a more rounded and comprehensive program! Please post the program information page or other related info - thanks

Hi Jenn:

One of the main themes of my presentation at the Tutor/Mentor conference this last week had to do with the idea that our conversations on the web -- here on the Edge, and more widely, wherever social enterprise is discussed -- is that we need to move from the conversational mode into collaboration of one kind or another when we can -- to begin to treat our conversations here as seedbeds in which, for sure, we plant ideas -- but to which we also return to harvest them.

And the harvesting means connecting with those others whose posts inspire and engage us, to see if we can't collaborate.

Several people here have talked about a strong social entrepreneurial strand within a business school environment, some from the POV of students in MBA or pother "kindred" areas of education, some as faculty members, some as entrepreneurs with a strong social commitment.

My question -- here and elsewhere -- is this: do we have a quorum? Is there a conversation that could spin off this one, with maybe a half dozen members, to explore ways of harnessing group energy, to support and or develop group endeavors?

I sometimes feel SocialEdge is a series of shoes dropping, each one waiting for "the other shoe" to drop.

Can we begin to take our conversations here a little farther -- so that in later events like this, we can report back on successes seeded here on the Edge?

Hi Charles - it's ironic that I stumbled across this discussion in the midst of my own search for graduate study options.

I have a BA in English from a Liberal Arts school and a professional background in marketing and business development for start up companies. My professional work coupled with on going and dedicated volunteer work lead me to an Executive position at a local, environmentally focused NPO.

But I find myself at a crossroads, exploring options for graduate studies. I don't have any formal business training (all on the job) or formal education in environmental studies - but I believe both business and passion are equally important in building any NPO/bcorp/socially innovative endeavor - every successful organization/company needs a strong business foundation. And I see graduate studies as a necessary tool in gaining the education and experience I lack and a requirement in advancing my career.

So I have been trying to carve out the best path to combine these areas of interest into one. While many schools such as Stanford and SCU have MBA programs with a focus on (social) entrepreneurship, I have yet to find a program that combines the necessary areas of study to create a well rounded program which includes (for me) business, environmental studies (insert: non profit management, conservation biology, forestry etc. etc.) and sociology.

I hope to see cross integration of MBA and MS/MA programs and more action on the part of Universities and Colleges to welcome hybrid degrees b/c interdisciplinary studies under one program doesn't offer the coursework needed to fulfill the needs of our growing number of social entrepreneurs.

Thank you for introducing this topic - it was interesting to read others' responses.

Charles,

Thanks for connecting this discussion to the conference we held in Chicago on May 27 and 28. Here's the handout that Charles distributed at the conference. http://www.tutormentorexchange.net/[…]/tmc_socialedge.pdf

This shows how we've connected with each other, and with others, in discussions like this and how my comments and links have, over time, encouraged Charles to visit my sites and build his own understanding of what we're doing, and how he can help.

I have often described Social Edge as a "horizontal community" where many people with a common interest (social benefit) are connected in a random string of discussions. The Tutor/Mentor Connection, like many businesses, is a vertical organization. We want to grow our impact, in measurable terms, each year. We want to help kids who enter first grade in a poverty neighborhood today, to be entering their first job by their early 20s, as a result of the network of support we've helped them build over a 15 to 20 year period. We share our ideas and do much of our work on web sites we host, such as www.cabriniconnections.net and www.tutormentorconnection.org

Most of those who post comments or read the messages at Social Edge, may not be interested in this cause, thus you'll not be likely to become personally engaged, although you may see some things that we do which are transferable to what you're trying to do.

Or, you may see value of inviting people you know to this conversation, so that the number of people involved grows. If all of us did that, then the increased participation likely would result in more people supporting the individual causes that each of us support.

Making sense of all of this, and adding low-cost manpower, are unique possibilities, if students from high schools and colleges, combine their learning requirements with hands on service and experience-building. At this link, I show various departments at Northwestern University. www.tinyurl.com/northwesternmap

Imagine the potential if a small group of NU students and alumni were trying to mobilize all of these resources to support the mission of the Tutor/Mentor Connection. At http://nututormentor.ning.com we're trying to make that happen.

At http://tutormentorconnection.ning.com you can see where interns from various universities have been working with me to communicate our ideas. Imagine if someone from Stanford, or Said, or Harvard, or the City Colleges of Chicago, were encouraging student and volunteer involvement in the Tutor/Mentor Connection, as part of a course of study requirement?

I use T/MC as an example, but if I were leading an organization focused on any other social benefit sector, I feel I could duplicate much of what T/MC is doing, and much of what many others are doing, to constantly improve the success of my own organization.

Charles describes a connected network of virtual organizations in the paper he distributed at the T/MC conference. Just by linking to each other from our own web sites, we create a map, or a navigation path, that might make it easier to find each other.

Thank you for a wonderful position towards both a strategic and a compassionate mindset. I would say that that holistic view is something we are already moving quite steadily towards. The biggest question recent graduates ask companies is what they do to help the community. Even if they go work for a forprofit, they want to know what is being done to help, and the positive footprint being created.

I would also say most people aren't so polarized anymore. I come from both a forprofit and nonprofit background; I hope, that I do think 'both ways.' It is, true, a balancing act. We have to switch back between profitability and mission; between efficiency and compassion.

But companies are doing this by adhering to a bottom line, and, producing positive products for the community. And it's not just for companies producing sustainable wind power or other benevolent products. For example, Pepsi is committing to improve the health of its products, with target dates for reducing sugar and sodium, and offering healthier alternative products. They are reinventing themselves, regearing towards the marketplace, towards health. They have self-opted out of providing softdrinks in schools and will be removing the drinks themselves. An inspiring shift!

Sincerely,
Pamela Hawley
Founder and CEO
UniversalGiving™

phawley@universalgiving.org
www.universalgiving.org

Living and Giving blog
www.pamelahawley.wordpress.com

Hello once again, Pamela:

It's a funny business, trying to describe the present state of something that's in the middle of a shift. You say "most people aren't so polarized anymore" (which is very inspiring) and Danny said above "yet we keep teaching business students how to chase for the biggest bottom line solely" (which is probably no less true, and very grounding) and the reality is that we're in motion between what Danny is seeing and what you're seeing, with both of you helping us move along from a too heavy focus on the bottom line towards a far richer focus on social (including environmental) needs.

So i think we need the winds of Danny's concern in our sails, and the inspiration your examples bring in the hearts of our crew members...

Dear Hipbone, you are a great facilitator and it is important to see both sides! Room for improvement there surely is. As much as Pepsi efforts are laudable, we have dozens of other companies of great concern. I keep focusing on what we can do to positively blend as that balance of values is indeed important! Thank you for keeping lively, relevant discussions going.

Warmly,
Pamela

Hi Pamela:

I saw this today, and realized I hadn't thanked you for your kind words!

I'm encouraged!

Hi Charles et al,

I'm sorry I missed out on this discussion when it was still active! I have an additional viewpoint to offer; hopefully I am not coming in too late to be relevant.

Building on Yasmina's suggestion that leadership is an important quality that cannot be taught, I would like to wonder aloud whether we are asking the right question. That is, is an MBA really equivalent to hard skills and years of experience working in a purely for-profit environment?

My own experience was as a liberal arts major (international development) with a purely NGO background. For many of the reasons mentioned in the discussion above, I chose to pursue an MBA degree rather than go the more traditional route of a Masters in International Relations or another similar degree.

I went to a "hardcore finance/quantitative" school - Wharton - because I thought a degree from Wharton would signal that I am analytical, strategic, and help me get away from the "wishy washy" negative stereotypes that often plague those of us with NGO backgrounds.

Now, I think I succeeded in setting myself apart from the pack and signaling that I bring more than just idealism to the table. But I can not really claim to have a "business background," having only worked in one for-profit firm in my life (and that was as a strategy consultant). I'm not so sure I can claim to understand how the business world works just because I have studied it in the classroom and now have 800 contacts who work in business, finance, etc. Indeed the most valuable lesson I learned in my MBA program is that there is no mystery behind business. For-profit is not more accountable, rigorous, strategic, efficient than non-profit.

This demystification has made me much more confident. I can speak a jargon that potential donors, investors, etc can relate to. But do I have a "business background"? No way.

Hi Andrea:

I'm afraid I'm the one who has been a bit inactive -- the conversation is ongoing, as your post proves -- and with almost fifty posts to date, it's likely to join our "Top Discussions" list even when new events crowd it off the prime real estate on our home page where only the most recent events are listed.

You write:

QUOTE: I can speak a jargon that potential donors, investors, etc can relate to. :UNQUOTE

I think that a "non-profit" set of values with fluency in that jargon would be a wonderful combination. I'd be interested to hear more, though, about the places where that discourse differs from "NGO" discourse, in terms of values and assumption base -- because i think an understanding of the differences will prove essential to the eventual development of a common language in which the values of both kinds of approach can be expressed.

Thanks again for posting.

And please accept my apologies for mis-spelling your name, Andree!

Hello, everyone. The charities with which I work have a concept which might tie the work of Daniel Bassill, Daniel Surface, Jonathan Lake, and Robyne Turner together. I ask each to e-mail me at vanajemian@hotmail.com, so that a thought for a possible synthesis be shared. // Recently, there was a conversation with a doctoral student about student labor--and subsequent benefit to students--replacing investor capital in an early-stage social enterprise, thereby making it possible to direct net income into communities instead of to investors. Thus, there is another reason to engage university students. However, an Ashoka Fellow kindly e-mailed me the message below after I made the assertion that there was not enough exciting practicum for students to want to take a university course in social entrepreneurship. Even with what the Fellow said, there seemed to be a missing ingredient. Maybe that missing ingredient would be something as simple as a campus-based social enterprise which helped a student pay her or his bills, whether or not the student imagined herself in the role of a social entrepreneur. This would assume that student labor could substantially substitute for seed capital, the social enterprise would be profitable in a relatively short time, and there would be multi-disciplinary cooperation on the campus. // The point is, first and foremost, to involve students with a social enterprise for the public good to be done, not for the impressions to be made upon students, in return for which the students would benefit, even if they had no initial interest in social entrepreneurship. // Message from Ashoka Fellow. "...A large part of what Ashoka U does is to educate universities on the importance of introducing applied learning, apprenticeship and hands-on practice into their curricula on social entrepreneurship. However, as you can imagine, with 2500 Ashoka Fellows who all have social enterprises/ventures going and thriving, we are focused on connecting universities to those social entrepreneurs and established and successful organizations for applied learning and apprenticeship opportunities. [[My question would be whether the Ashoka Fellows would have social enterprises of the type mentioned above. I tend to think not.]] And to be honest, while I agree with you that faculty can use some encouragement to take risks, universities are generally doing much better at integrating applied learning opportunities, than addressing some of the other elements that need to be in place for a quality social entrepreneurship program. They are not asking Ashoka U for much help with incubators, campus-based enterprises, etc – but rather for help in developing quality curricula, integrating it into existing courses, hiring quality faculty, research development and publishing, and building out infrastructure in the university to support it all. [[If university faculty with little or no background in social entrepreneurship set the goals, is it not likely that the goals would be modest, in order for them to reduce the risk of failure or the time commitment?]] We have to be in response to and focus our efforts where universities are having the greatest need. [[That is interesting. How about a community's greatest need? Do we assume that a university would prioritize that, in light of factors like risk and time?]] ..." // Thank you. Van Ajemian, Montebello, California.

Thanks, Van. As I said to Daniel S above, I'm delighted to see potentisl collaborative links being made in this discussion -- It's important for the further development of our work that we should make sure to lift our ideas and personal connections here out of the sphere of words and bring them to bear on our own projects -- and even more so, on the building of collaborations that draw on our mutual strengths. You (as a reader here) may hold the one insight -- or personal connection -- that would make another reader's project come vibrantly alive -- but if we don't share our "water-cooler" tacit knowledge and networking links, all such possibilities will recede from our grasp.

Here's another place where I'm trying to draw people into actions that might bring more support to innovators trying to solve problems of poverty and education. I've shared the idea I've suggested here in the past, about recruiting teams of business school students to help build resources for non profits working in the communities where these universities are located. http://firesidelearning.nin[…]d=1786468%3AComment%3A63193

Daniel, good afternoon.

Thank you for the information.

Please contact me via e-mail at vanajemian@hotmail.com. Put "Daniel from Social Edge" in the subject field. I have something to share relevant to your work.

Thanks.

Van

Personally, I have a double Bachelors, an MS and an EMBA. I am the Executive director of a non-profit, social enterprise in CA.

Now I have been coming head to head with these issues, many social enterprises are new to CA, and are viewed as businesses. BUT, as a business student, a middle and upper level management in corporate America, I bring those ideas, teachings of what has worked and not worked in that setting to the non-profit world.

For example, we teach, educate and coach/mentor individuals and families regarding personal/business finances and getting out of debt. People gasp when I say we charge for our services, they expect it for free since we are a non-profit. I simply answer, if you keep getting everything for free when are you ever going to get up out of the trench and stand on your own. People can do it they have to have the choice to do so.

I think that we need everything to succeed. What any group lacks they need to find that missing component. So everything is needed, passion, contribution, resources, and expertise. When we set up our organization it was all 100% self funded, I have the expertise and created a training manual, I had resources but needed and still need more, I definitely have and had the passion and contribution it was taking over 150% out of me each day. Many people told me to just leave it alone, let people die with their debt if they don’t want to engage into a program that will teach them step by step how to get out of debt, personal coaching, not a CD or DVD, but a personal mentor and coach in person for a set period of time. If they did not see the benefit of that, forget it.

I have to say many don’t see what we do right away, we have to open their eyes and they are just blown away.

One of our board members is the Vice Chancellor of Entrepreneurship, and the Director of the School of Entrepreneurship, he is doing exactly what you are stating, bringing both sides together at the school he teaches at. Bridging the gap from Dance, Film, Biology, Physical Therapy to the School of Business. Getting the people with the passion, drive, concept and idea and linking them to the people who have the skills to put everything together and get the funds needed to make the dream a reality.
This is what’s needed, working together bridging the gaps

Hello,

It doesn't need MBA for bussiness development, In marketing we need some communication skills for it nothing more we required. ofcourse some qualities about Masters we need in MBA, But in most of the cases its not important.

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I just wanted to single out these two paragraphs from Michael:

he is doing exactly what you are stating, bringing both sides together at the school he teaches at. Bridging the gap from Dance, Film, Biology, Physical Therapy to the School of Business. Getting the people with the passion, drive, concept and idea and linking them to the people who have the skills to put everything together and get the funds needed to make the dream a reality.

This is what’s needed, working together bridging the gaps.

-- to which I can only say, Amen!

Hello all. As Ms. Riese did, I discovered Social Edge (delightedly) while researching potential graduate programs and I am glad for it. Having just resigned from a Title-1 public middle school teaching post in California, my thoughts about your carefully considered discussions seem to converge on one point: until No Child Left Behind is abandoned, study beyond the secondary level by a number of those being graduated from public school is simply not an option because they are not being taught how to think. Mr. Jackson’s statement, “I believe as long as academia continues to pump out automatons that are focused on how to make money and get their share of the goods, rather than how to make the world a better place, we will continue to have a business climate that is effectively and efficiently sending humanity to its doom,” may ring true regarding those who actually make it to college. It bears repeating that as long as elementary and secondary teaching is focused on passing tests, independent/critical thinking is not on the agenda, hence the notion of engaging in post-secondary education is not practical. Yes, to date my work has been only in a Title-1 setting wherein most of the kids come from low-income families. (And yes, there are theories across the political spectrum addressing low-income populations ranging from what kinds of currency are of value to them and why that needs to be foremost in their teacher’s mind to the perilous results of the welfare state.) I geuinely hope that my observations are the exception and that “college-preparatory” educations offered elsewhere (usually at a price) are vastly better. And gratefully, alternatives like charter schools are multiplying. Whether a child comes from little or abundant means, the fact remains that intellectual energy—independent/critical thinking—is required in academic settings beyond high school, and the public education that my students were receiving did not suitably equip them to participate. So, as Mr. Bassill advocates, tutors/mentors are one means by which students can augment their public education and hopefully gain “real life” exposure to what the adult world holds in store for them. The intellectual laziness inherent in No Child Left Behind is abominable. We live in an era where curricula are so strictly aligned to testing that—believe it or not—extremely little if any classroom time remains for genuine research, discovery, and learning, rather it is replaced with memory tricks and other crutches. And until those who write policy finally get it—and to make what may be a tenuous connection to your discussions—I (who do not tend toward fatalism) believe currently that those graduated under No Child Left Behind will not be suited to contribute to our economy either in a bottom-line or a social entrepreneurship capacity. OK – time to step down from my particular soapbox, and perhaps Ms. Cynamon-Murphy had a different, more hopeful experience in secondary teaching.

Having worked as a Small Business Development Volunteer in Panama for the US Peace Corps, I know about the passion and contribution needed to increase tourism dollars for the poorest community members, the indigenous (Knabe) women. When I think about how to integrate the small artisan selling business,I worked with into the US market whereby these women can increase their wealth even further, I can't help but believe that the discipline of attaining an MBA would help craft my approach and lead to greater success.

Social enterprise has to be regarded as something new as it flips from an economic focused dynamic to a social benefit dynamic. I hope that more liberal arts idealists with the passion to tackle the world's social ills will consider attaining MBAs to better infiltrate through the business world and create a shift to more social enterprise endeavors.

Here is an example of actually a more environmental enterprise with positive social externalities from fellow passionate Peace Corps Volunteers turned MBA students http://www.plantingempowerment.com/15.html

There definitely needs to be a balance between resources, expertise, passions and contribution. From reading the responses to this post it seems clear that most people are in agreement. Social enterprises that do not have sufficient resources, or are too focused on obtaining more resources, might find themselves with inefficient systems. Too much time and resources are spent trying to find more resources that the mission is no longer the main focus or goal. On the other end of the spectrum, an enterprise can be too focused on the social mission that the resource side is neglected and the enterprise is no longer sustainable. Incorporation of business into liberal arts programs and liberal arts into business programs would be a way to create a balance between the two. In my business program there is a required course that focuses on not only the economics of business but also the social and environmental issues as well. What I got out of the course and what I hope others got out of it is to create or evolve businesses so that they are looking at the triple bottom line and incorporating all aspects into the business model.

This is an interesting discussion, and one that hits me on a personal level. I was a liberal arts student in college, but after lots of volunteer work and then a stint with a start-up business, here I am, half way to my MBA. I find it a bit generic to lump all liberal arts students into one category, and MBAs into another. The study of business should not be archaic, and is not, in many schools. I am focusing my studies on social enterprise because I do believe in utilizing my passion in my career, but the power of business is not one to be ignored, which I also learned in a failing small enterprise. History has shown that many non-profit organizations fail because they have a great deal of passion, but a dearth of resources or hard skills necessary for self-sustainability. Certainly resources and skills alone can change society; just look at the way Apple has revolutionized the music industry with iPods. What I think we are really driving at with this discussion, though, is how to maximize positive social change, not just shareholder wealth. Harnessing the power of business to create social change, in my eyes, is an amazing partnership with a bright future, and I look forward to being a part of it.