How Many Ways of Looking at Poverty

I believe that 12 "Global Issues" need to be solved to solve poverty:
 Governance
 Crime
 Security
 Environment Protection
 Population Shift
 Health
 Food
 Water
 Energy
 Education
These “global issues” issues” must be solve simultaneously if one is to provide solutions to poverty and dependency. Unfortunetly, some/many social entrepreneurs to not have the proper background to solve these issues. For example, some/many social entrepreneurs do not have the background to provide a new water system, new energy system, new agriculture system for food security, improved vocational training to improve education, etc. Some/many social entrepreneurs tend to look to "experts", good intentions, and money to solve the problem for them; this has proven not to work. There are still over a billion people in terrible poverty. I believe programs such as the Gates Foundation PASS program in Africa will work. I hope my own program "Mas Dinero" in Colombia will also work (see http://home.comcast.net/~prigter/site/).

Dear friends of Socialedge,

This is a topic I wish I talk for hours to see that it is relooked and reframed or at the best I hope it's not used at all (quiet a dream anyway)

I see the poverty started getting grounded the day knowledge is institutionalized, as always I get thrilled to see the consistency from all other living beings on their appearance and behavior irrespective of any specific delivery mechanisms.

If I were granted to live forever say for 1000 years or more I see 'YES' then we need to invest on few deffinets, as I grow up I am seeing more uncertainties cropping up and I see we are with left no option but to correct, minimize the quantum of damage and move on with our regular work.

Everyday it's becoming challenging and exhausting.

But as people who believe in tomorrow that it would be better that we have to continue what we have committed for.

I like to come to specifics >

In my view poverty is >

> Is your inability to share resources unconditionally
> Is your inability to communicate (voice one's opinion)
> Is your inability to act within your means, when you know you can address the concerned issue.

I believe and follow that keep delivering the best possible way's to enhance quality of life of people around.

And I am sure things will move on, even in your absence as you must have left a wonderful path and the drive of life is made comfortable.

Carola

I beg to disagree with you in your definitions of poverty from within an "academic" viewpoint. In my own opinion, poverty is as a result of all of those interpretations rather than an either/or situation.

That been said, why is it so?

Because, poverty is a man made situation! ... and being a man made situation it can be undone by man ... if all man were willing to do so. (The same goes for climate change et.al.)

To survive man needs a few basic things only (if the market economy was not here):

1. food
2. water
3. shelter
4. air (oxygen)

but in today's climate, with the exception of "air" man canot survive unless it has the resources (money) to buy them, and had the business sector discovered a manner in which to lay claim to the air we all breathe ... this wouls also be claimed to be solely owened by that individual (organisation) and charged for!

This leads to my beleif that poverty is indeed a direct result of "greed" and "control" and is a man made situation.

Laurinda Seabra

Laurinda,

Thanks for your post but I would disagree with your description of poverty. Before I state why I will give my own quick interpretation.

the poor are poor because they lack the ability for their individual actions to amount to collective wealth

Man does need very few things to survive, but many have those 4 things you stated and are still very poor. Even where the market does not have "control" over these necessities, the poor are too many to count. A very limited portion of the poor have legal title to their shelters and spend the entirety of their lives in the informal economy.

The market economy exists far more freely in Africa than it does in the modern world. There are far more transactions along supply chains, prices are not insulated from any fluctuations, almost no market intervention exists, etc. The inefficiency of the "free market" of the poor is that there is no supporting infrastructure (both physical and social) to allow economic actors to work together.

In modern economies there is contract law, property rights, trust between economic actors, a strong court system, and an intricate physical infrastructure. All of these are collective goods that allow business to function efficiently. In contrast, the developing world has none of these which introduces excessive hidden costs to businesses which greatly limits their economic activity, and more importantly, their ability to create virtuous cycles we in the West take for granted.

Greed and control exist, but it needs to be pointed out that this greed and control is responsible for bring 1/3 of the world out of poverty. Now it is time to harness these forces once more for the rest of the world.

James Crawford

Carola,

While we accept all of the ways given above for looking at poverty, our view is that nobody needs to be poor and struggle. Our research demonstrates that nobody is poor at birth, as everyone is born with a set of natural talents/strength (Thoughts, Will/Drive/Entrepreneurial/Leadership traits and skills) that if identified, refined and oriented in an unbiased manner will enable the child to live meaningfully and excel in life. Everyone on earth is an actor/contributor to one or more value chains and is able to be productive or offer a service that is able to provide sufficient income. However, if a child is born in an uneducated and emotionally, mentally, spiritually or economically poor family, it will grow up in an environment that is imbalanced, biased and is constantly coerced to follow procedures that are alien to the child's thinking. If the child is born in a community where there are no transparent and democratic leaders, where the well-being, protection, education and basic services needed for bringing up children is neglected or unavailable, he/she would be trapped. This prevents the identification and refining of it's talents/strengths and will eventually grow up as a mediocre human unable to be creative and face the competitions and challenges in life. The research of the TIDY center and it's affiliates since 1988 indicates that 95% of those we interviewed were not living life meaningfully and joyfully. Let me first give an excerpt from the book of Maria Montessori that describes where we have rebelled against nature and gone wrong before providing some insight on the manner we are proceeding to overcome the challenges:

“The construction of the greatest marvel of the universe (the human being) is guided by his/her inward teacher. We the external teachers can only help the work going on, as servants wait upon a master. We then become witnesses to the development of the human soul: the emergence of the new man, who will no longer be the victim of events but, thanks to his clarity of vision, will become able to direct and to mold the future of mankind.” – Excerpted from chapter 1, The Absorbent Mind by Maria Montessori. Posted at: http://rss.ireport.com/docs/DOC-249061

In order to correct the imbalances and enable "poor" and post conflict communities start living meaningfully and joyfully we design and implement programs with the following interventions:

1) Dialogue with the community to identify each individual's talents/strengths/purpose/likes, their happiness level and the challenges preventing them from living meaningfully: Please see a flip chart at: http://spmconsortium.ning.com/[…]/happiness-level-awere-ug?context=user
We found that though many communities could identify what was preventing them from being content/happy and identify the manner they could overcome them as they did not have any leaders to guide them. They were also unable to clearly identify their talents/strengths. They were also hesitant to trust their past leaders and the social/civil organizations working in their communities as they were not transparent. AS we found that the best option was to create new structures we proceeded in the following manner:
2) We request them to nominate honest persons concerned about the challenges who could take the lead in resolving them, to form Committees For Better Living (CBL).
3) We provide guidance on the manner they could advocate with authorities for basic services and protection and prepare and submit proposals to developmental agencies for challenges that are unresolved.
4) For developing businesses/farming we provide coaching to establish Value Chain Associations (VCAs), pool resources and invest in economic activities while keeping transparent accounts.
5) After around 12 weeks we coach them to nominate one or two persons of good standing and leadership qualities to be elected to form a larger producer/service organization, register as an association/cooperative, consolidate savings, open bank accounts and access large loans to develop their VCAs.
6) The producer/service organization is coached to establish units for provision of services for better living and a MicroFinance section. Please see the list of services we provided in DR Congo through CCMV/ACBL - Advisory Centers for Better Living: http://spmconsortium.ning.c[…]res-for-better?context=user

From the above, we see that if the "poor" have guidelines to identify and refine their talents/strengths and are coached to identify local leaders who are transparent to establish VCAs and larger organizations, we can rapidly overcome poverty.

The package of services offered by the ACBL/CCMV centers in DR Congo were identified after careful research. We plan to establish centers in other vulnerable and poor communities and countries when and if we have sufficient funds.

Sunimal Alles
Consultant/Advisor,
Conflict prevention, MicroFinance and MicroEnterprise,
The TIDY Centre,
www.tidycentre.com

These are very interesting responses. I am reminded of a quote from Aung San Suu Kyi: "If material betterment, which is but a means to human happiness, is sought in ways that wound the human spirit, it can in the long run only lead to greater human suffering. The vast possibilities that a market economy can open to developing countries can be realized only if economic reforms are undertaken within a framework that recognizes human needs....markets should serve people instead of people serving markets." (Nov 21, 1994 address to WCCD in Manila)

If poverty is a result of greed and control, the inability to share resources, thus leading to a lack of individual and community security - are there solutions to these issues? What will it take to address them?

Carola

Hi Carola, ultimately humanity (I prefer to call us that, rather than "mankind" who will no doubt drive us to the brink) we are on a journey to not only lift the lid on ourselves, but also to unravel the mysteries of the unseen universe. The thread binding us (and the source of our interconnectedness) is of course the human soul. Like Sunimal cited with Maria Montessori's the Absorbant Mind, we are on a journey of the development of the soul. The perfect non-dual state of oneness with equality for all, where the instinct to share and collaborate is in everyone's interest. As women are naturally more inclined to be collaborators, gender equality is an absolute prerequisite to addressing poverty, lack of opportunity and lack of infrastructure. Of course where's there's lack, there's a gap.

With pterodactyl and predatory economics in some of the world's poorest places, a lot of the world is still in the dark ages -where poverty is the result of greed and control - leading to the inability to share resources. Humanity's on the right track when wealth-creation is used to effect the most amount of people, since we know the cause and effect of poverty reduction is through economic growth.

To eradicate poverty, the world needs a new mindset - after all why does the world still tolerate extreme poverty - when the nature of being in a (global) society requires us to care about the welfare of others. It shouldn't have to come down to "shareholder value vs humanity's value" it's a no-brainer. What's holding us up is bankrupt political ideology's, that's what the world needs to address first.

re: "...since we know the cause and effect of poverty reduction is through economic growth"

All of this is an interesting dance around practical matters and laden with broad and deep sub-tier, sub-text notions (academic/intellectual and practical/tangible). Humankind, humanity, mankind, womankind - homo sapiens sapiens (so many things a human can be - so many things poverty can be and within so many contexts, political, personal, philosophical, mental, experiential) - appear to me to be trying to trick or out-trick itself into some belief that runs alongside "poverty" while never really grasping it in a practical way. Daily I observe imaginative, theoretical mind leaping and conceptual connecting that attempts to play with the psyche of a populous in hopes of tapping into that one nerve that turns into motivation, then into momentum enough to eradicate the suffering presumed to be instantiated by poverty alone. What nerve? Last in the body among the spray of words: the stomach nerve (standing for the essential array of life-sustaining, primary, needs of humans). While talk of politics, views of words meanings, mapping of corollaries and possible real or philosophical causes and effects makes for interesting debate and mental exercising, I think it important to point out that poverty for the animal kingdom has from the beginning manifested itself in a rather non-poverty-like fashion. Rather it tends to enact a natural ebb and flow in governance of population sizes responding gracefully to fluctuations in available resources. Until we figure out how to cooperate with, rather than control, nature's resources we'll find ourselves stuck in this dizzying theoretical buzz where a so-called intelligent species has it's hand on a virtual thermostat. "Virtual" is another of those words we use like "humanity" and "poverty" but it bears a certain poignance here; "being such in power, force, or effect, though not actually or expressly such." Being such in power will always only be virtual outside the context of nature. And nature will forego the intelligence needed to ensure its success and prevail...without a second thought. "Poverty" and all we associate with it will to us thinkers always be like the thermostat we think we hold in our hand - a word that we think stands for something substantial when it's just another among many that are piled in a heap of other conceptual rubble that lack the wherewithal to touch the world as it really is. Set against the rules of nature (temporality of elemental form(s) - so with life, so with matter), humanity's future is perpetually impoverished. Releasing our hold is the only way to ensure the balance we crave be it in answering questions about poverty or potty training. Maybe we can start the process by trying not to be so damned smart.

Rick, you're so clever you've put my mind in a spin. I agree with you, we are the only ones in the animal kingdom that have to deal with poverty, all the other animals just eat, or are eaten. It reminds me of a quote from Gandhi, "the greatness of a nation and its moral progress can be judged by the way its animals are treated." You're right, we need to release our hold on navel gazing.

Good spin. Do you think Gandhi would have put humans in the animal category? I'd be the first to admit my favor for the human animal despite my seeming deference to Nature. But there is all kinds of nature - among them, human Nature. My biggest wonder these days is what that Nature looked like before the advent of property (starting with the advent of "I" , "it" that evolved into "Mine" , "Yours" - and certain subsequent modern-day Lockean weavings), and if that was something like a golden age where inherent unity lacked a need for vocabularies with words like prosperity...perhaps even posterity. Indigenous folks seemed to have some pre-distinction concept of reality where parts were equal to the whole. But now trust wanes where Nature seems severe or threatening - and so we run from the lions when they're hungry...run from the wind when it's cold. We figured out how we could stop running and rather hold such other kinds back - ingenious kind that we had become - and now hold deeply ingenuity as the norm. I don't disagree. Still, I can't help feeling like I miss (if only I could find or figure out what's been lost) the part I and my kind once played in Nature. I sense it on barefooted days where pavement hasn't yet been laid.

Gandhi might have seen "serfdom" as a kind of animal needing to become conscious of its rights, "with the respect that belongs to man...and the requirements of dignity" -seeing, untouchability as an evil far worse than poverty. Being committed to equal rights and obligations for all citizens, he knew people must wake up to their duty of how they treat others.

And the same goes for indigenous cultures too Rick, with welfare rights for disadvantaged groups who have been systemically denied their rights, "self-realisation by individuals can only be achieved within a community...if the society provides opportunities for the individual's growth." I agree the world craves balance, yet has turned away from what indigenous cultures know as truth, to "cooperate rather than control nature's resources" in listening to each other human nature can achieve balance, the question is, will we?

I have been using maps to help visualize where poverty is most concentrated in Chicago. Such maps focus our thinking on broader strategies than one program in one place. We need many of the same types of programs in all places where there is high poverty and other indicators of need, such as high crime rates, or high numbers of poorly performing schools.

These maps not only focus on places where resources are needed, they point to businesses, faith groups, hospitals and universities who are in, or near these places, and who need to be acting as intermediaries to draw consistent resources to the programs in these areas that reduce the hopelessness of poverty.

At http://mappingforjustice.blogspot.com you can see some of our Chicago maps.
At http://www.frbsf.org/cpreport/ you can find a website that maps poverty in America.

In the Tutor/Mentor Connection library we provide links to many other examples of poverty mapping. http://tinyurl.com/TMCLibrary-PovertyMapping

While these maps show places where people are poor, they don't explain why in some places poor people rise above being poor, or where there are low rates of crime and other costs to society.

This blog article comments on the outrage following a recent murder of a boy in Chicago. It points to a book titled American Apartheid, by Douglas Massey and Nancy A. Denton, which illustrates how some places are more socially and economically isolated than others, and thus different norms for behavior begin to develop. http://mappingforjustice.bl[…]lem-rip-derrion-albert.html

This book is just one of many resources that we host at http://tinyurl.com/TMLibrary-research . It would take many years to read and understand all of these, yet until we find ways that people who don't live in poverty are becoming personally connected, and are learning from this research, it's not likely that any sustained, and broad based, strategies will develop to change the lives of people living in poverty throughout the USA and the world.

A couple of years ago, I was very surprised to see World Bank reporting that poverty in Ukraine had been reduced to 8% of the total population of people. The main focus of my work in the former USSR is and has always been poverty relief. Poverty as I understood it had been running at about 25-30% of the population. It was loosely considered to be a condition where a person came up short of resources to have any one of basic survival needs: food, adequate housing, clothing, basic health care, means of essential transportation. WB's report was far out of the norm of what I've seen during the past decade, mostly in Ukraine. I braced myself for several days, and then plunged into what I anticipated would be a tedious study of statistics, charts, and graphs. The answer as it turned out was not so elusive: on the first page, WB pegged poverty to $363 PER YEAR, or about $1 per day. $1 a day in Ukraine buys one liter of milk and one loaf of bread. It assumes no need for housing, clothing, transportation, or more food than milk and a loaf of bread.

Let them go to Europe or the US and try that. It was an insult to Ukraine, the same as it would be an insult to Europeans and Americans. Or, conversely, that strategy would all but eliminate poverty in Europe and the US immediately. I chalked it up as an elaborate hoax.

So WB defines poverty as income of less than $1 a day anywhere they think they might be able to get away with doing that.

Obviously, poverty cannot be universally pegged to one fixed amount of income and then using that as the definition for poverty. It has to be qualitative in terms of quality of life. If someone lacks adequate housing, food, clothing, or transportation as needed to get around and manage their life, they suffer from deprivation. Never mind the great luxury of one or two vacations per year when they might go and relax and get away from it all for just a few days. That's not even on radar. They're not going anywhere. They're trapped in a prison without walls, prisoners without crime.

That's what I mean by being poor, in poverty.

What are other definitions?

Second question is so relevant to your thoughtful comments: what forces condition our solutions to poverty and dependency?

Is it because some of us have so much that we become insulated from those in poverty (and cannot imagine losing it)? And yet, some who have a great deal - materially and otherwise - have a huge desire to assist those who do not.

What brought those of us in this conversation to care enough to have the converation and take the actions that we do?

Carola

"What brought those of us in this conversation to care enough to have the converation and take the actions that we do?"

1 - Dharma.

2 - Enlightened self-interest. Leaving people to die from deprivation is hardly different than shooting them outright. --> self-defense mode for the intended victims --> some of them can, do, and will fight back by any means possible, up to and including terrorism in an increasingly asynchronous battlefield a.k.a. the information age.

As I see two factors are stumbling blocks for us to see, what we want to see -

1) Lies
2) Fear

I see to become able citizens to contribute we need to win over these two factors.

We need energy to say, we don’t know and have courage to say TRUTH.

While we live in an uncertain world, a fact which we are comfortable if it is not mentioned, but YES when we know this, our ability to contribute are enhanced.

Keep contributing, keep learning and I am sure our aspirations to see a JUST World can become a reality.

Absolutely Prakash, in our uncertain world we want to see a JUST future become the reality for everyone, in joining the conversation, fear is the question - love is the answer.

"As I see two factors are stumbling blocks for us to see, what we want to see -

1) Lies
2) Fear

I see to become able citizens to contribute we need to win over these two factors."

Amen, brother.

How about the first question concerning human beings looking to differentiate themselves on a vertical scale? Is this inherent in our psychological make-up? If it is inherent, and it contributes to the enormous gap between rich and poor - how to address it?

Carola

Let me say what inspires me to continue to do irrespective of different situations I was in, which had energy to discontinue the journey we undertook are some of these statements -

>The Ask Not What Your Country Can Do For You speech by John F. Kennedy,

>Mahatma Gandhi's -We must be the change we wish to see.

>Let Noble Thoughts Come To Us from Every Side Rigveda 1-89-1

We need to keep stating and sharing some of these statements, they help to mould or work at levels which would help to trigger primary complex and thus help us get required responses.

Secondly what I see it is the situations or say blows in one's life will help to get some needed action( quiet a crude way, but we need to accept this above statement with a pinch of salt, that people don’t realize unless and until they go through similar situations)and exceptions for this crude position will always their.

I see realizations without any of the above happens for the gifted souls, but here, I should say this again that, for me it's my sister's death while I was 18years old, made me think of life and its realities.

Our position is DO WHAT YOU CAN that too now, an ETRNAL NOW which will automatically shapes into a beautiful tomorrow.

HOPE I COULD TOUCH WHAT YOU ASKED, IF NOT Carola, please accept this post as my limitation of understanding and help me learn.

Thank you for these insightful comments - I too find it necessary to look at the lives of those from whom we have found inspiration and recall their words on a regular basis. If we don't find hope and meaning in the lives of others - and meaning in our own personal tragedies, I think we are limited in our world view and therefore our ability to take wise action.

Another way of looking at poverty is as the negative image of non-poverty: In other words, what's missing from the picture that, when supplied, might transform want into well-being?

Sorry if that's a bit convoluted! Here are some concrete examples:

The Grameen Bank and other proponents of micro-finance saw that affordable and accessible credit was missing from poor communities. Supplying micro-credit now is a huge business, and has allowed many people to lift themselves out of dire poverty.

There are critics, of course. Not every program works. David Roodman at the Center for Global Development (http://www.cgdev.org/content/expert/detail/2719/) is one of many looking at microfinance with a critical eye.

Still, people's lives have been transformed by the opportunity to become entrepreneurs, even at a very small scale.

In the same mold, Jaqueline Novogratz sees the need for "patient capital" as one of the elements missing from the picture. Patient capital is invested in an idea or product with the understanding that the investment may or may not pay off right away. With patient capital, an entrepreneur has the opportunity to try and try again to get a new product or service right. Here's a link to an inspirational talk she recently gave on this topic: http://www.ted.com/talks/ja[…]way_to_think_about_aid.html

Thank you - yes, there are examples of that which works as well as programs which do not - and what can we do but keep on trying? Examples of amazing projects around the world can be found on the site of the Clinton Global Initiative: http://www.clintonglobalinitiative.org/ - all to address the basic needs and inequities experienced by those without the resources necessary for basic well-being.

We have some great examples presented in this discussion - are there more that anyone would like to bring up?
Carola

I agree Carola, it's about hope and meaning. People transform through opportunity, all they need to be given is the chance to contribute and solve problems for themselves.

I don't buy into the argument that the psychological make-up of human nature is rooted in a vertical-scale hierarchy (me vs we, us vs them, rich vs poor, winners vs losers etc.) Like the scarcity mindset, it's a disconnection between individuals, away from relatedness and towards a separation of self from nature. When the scarcity mentality becomes a fixed internal mechanism, it stops the creation of new parameters (that lead to changing patterns of lack and struggle) poverty can be a catch-22 inside a deep hole.

The mindset shift lies in changing belief systems, in seeing the pathways out, and in looking at human nature more holistically and with abundant connectedness, (like the mindset-between-market-and-aid.) It's good to know all that needs to happen with a shift -happens in a moment given the right conditions - for people to engage in the world in a different way.

I agree with Dr King, what the world needs is a "revolution of values" that refuses to deprive people of their basic human needs, while addressing the world's outrageous (economic and income) inequality.

What good points you make - the scarcity mentality does seem to lead to fear, greed, protection of one's own.....rather than openness leading to inclusiveness. I often wondered "how much is enough?" when working as a financial adviser - as for people with this mindset there was never enough to assuage the fear. Changing this state can be a such a transformational experience, or perhaps the transformational experience leads to such an alteration in world and personal view.

Yesterday's poverty was due to lack of knowledge. Todays poverty is due to lack of access to knowledge. For eg., in a country like India, if the government provided roads properly it would prove access for children to go to school and develop an earning capacity at a certain level. But the government is busy patting its back saying look how we have created a knowledge economy? Knowledge economy in a county where only 11% of the children go to school? The government has forgotten that it is there to create roads, hospitals etc. Once geographical access becomes less of an impediment, people will open schools and industries etc. This will reduce poverty for the current generation and reduce poverty for next generation. The Christian value of meek shall inherit the earth is the biggest con of all. One should be able to live on the earth to inherit it in the first place. When there are no roads people become prisoners of geography and it limits their access to services.

Yes, of course - one example of addressing the issue of access is the Knowledge Channel in the Philippines: http://www.knowledgechannel.com.ph/, which broadcasts educational programming to rural and impoverished schools which have little access to resources. Whole families in these areas also watch it in their homes, as everyone finds it stimulating - access to information and learning is vital to the success of any society.

Carola

"The marginalization of girls and women, poor governance, ethnic and religious antipathy, environmental degradation and unemployment constitute formidable obstacles to the progress and development of communities. These evidence a deeper crisis—one rooted in the values and attitudes that shape relationships at all levels of society. Viewed from this perspective, poverty can be described as the absence of those ethical, social and material resources needed to develop the moral, intellectual and social capacities of individuals, communities and institutions. Moral reasoning, group decision-making and freedom from racism, for example, are all essential tools for poverty alleviation. Such capacities must shape individual thinking as well as institutional arrangements and policy-making."

For more on this perspective see:
http://bic.org/[…]/08-0214.htm

 It is very clear from the world situation of poverty distribution that lack of education is the basis of all the problems. Swami Vivekananda inspired the world youth and particularly, the Indian youth to educate the masses, for removing evils like poverty and hunger from the society. The famous Chicago Speech of Swami Vivekananda thunders at the lazy and the pleasure seeking world communtiy and ask them to deliver first food and then religion. He said "when the poor fellows were starving no dogmas or lecturing will work."

The lack of education leads to mismanagement of the social institutions like public organisations and government offices through corruption, exploitation of power and finances, diversion of fund for luxurious activities forgetting the purpose of the social commitment, etc. Corruption is a desease which develops from pleasure seeking and low minded high officials and they are the only people who controls the higher offices in almost 90% of the national and international offices. Most of the projects and programs offering funding sopend their money for feeding the pleasure members of the world researchers and academicians and business professionals who eat and drink in five star hotels in the name of meetings and programs for launching even the poverty eradication programs!

it is pity that after so drinks and so much waste of money and food for few looters, they speak still about poverty and its eradication.