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Why you shouldn't scale up (small is beautiful)

by Social Edge last modified 2007-07-05 15:51

Hosted by Charles Cameron (April 2006 - Closed)

Charles Cameron writes that one of the brightest shining events of the many that SocialEdge has presented (and still contains in archived form) was the Sohodojo-inspired Small Is Good World at the Skoll World Forum.

In this week’s event, a companion to last week’s workshop on how and why to scale up, he returns to the theme of Small is Beautiful, asking for your experiences and reflections on EF Schumacher’s (small, beautiful) idea and how it applies to our field as social entrepreneurs.

Here is Toby Beresford’s description of the Small is Beautiful approach, taken from that forum.

Small is good is a change of mindset. A new way of approaching the problems and opportunities the world presents.

• In social terms it means direct one to one relationships matter – your family, your friends and your neighbours.
• In political terms it means communities matter – let the people closest to the problem choose how to solve it. It recognises that the man in Whitehall (or Washington, or Jakarta…) doesn’t know best.
• In economic terms it means small shopkeepers and producers can deliver better overall value to the consumer than giant chains. This value might come through stories of provenance (organic, free range, fairly traded), better service (be known by name), reduced environmental impact (seasonal vegetables), and local appropriateness (get your special Battersea cakes today.)

To choose small is good you have to let go of your centralising instinct. You have to believe in the potential of the empowered individual, the resilient family and the vibrant community.

How’s that for a set of criteria? Who among us doesn’t believe in the potential of the empowered individual, the resilient family and the vibrant community?

Please share with us your own experiences, questions and insights regarding the small-is-beautiful approach.




jimfruchterman - Apr 18, 2006 7:06 am (# Total: 132)
Benetech

Small is beautiful and technology

How does this concept interact with technology? For example, eBay is a huge tech enterprise that makes many of the small is beautiful concepts much more possible. Is eBay good or bad in this framework?


anilpansari - Apr 18, 2006 7:19 am (# Total: 132)

Small is beautiful and also sustainable

Well, e-bay might be providing opportunity to many small enterprises, but can you imagine what if e-bay is the only source of orders for these small enterprises??? They will close overnight if e-bay changes its policy or starts charging high...

Anyways, I have started Naveengram (www.naveengram.com) a company aimed at creating and expanding markets for small enterprises, who areb targetting rural and semi-urban population as the end customers. I strongly believe that these enterprises can provide a solution to any of the local problems using locally available resources - whether machines, material, finances, or human resource. THe complexity of the machine will be only till a level that it can be repaired by a local mechanic. This does not make individuals depend on large companies for spare parts, which are generally very expensive.

However, these enterprises are small, very small I would like to scale them to a sustainable level as suggested by Schumacher, an organisation of about 100 individuals doing a business of not more than USD 20 million.



Rhonda - Apr 18, 2006 7:33 am (# Total: 132)
Co-Founder of a Childrens Educational Foundation

Growing stronger smaller?

Dear Social Forum;

I have been waiting and watching for this particular topic for some time.  So please know the "coming soon" column is being read (smile).  After reading the section on growing I was waiting anxiously for this read or to share my inner professional and perhaps personal anxieties with growth. 

We have been struggling with the issue of growing for some time now.  Always asking the questions to ourselves; should we do more, do we need to grow, do we need large offices, how can we raise more money.  Why do we need MORE, Why do we need LARGE.  The answer was somewhat simple; if we raise more money then we will have more money to give away since that is our main focus. 

Our answer is consistently no, as an organization that supports childrens initiatives we want our money to go directly for the benefit of the child.  

If we grow then we anticipate more overhead costs meaning more of the money will not go to the children or the global awareness initiatives for which we serve.  Its a struggle, I often ask myself as one of the founders is it an ego struggle, are we in a competition? 

We have a board of directors all over the world (Angola, Germany, US and Brazil), we only work where we have a board member giving us complete "control" over all projects and programs to include mentoring our scholarship recipeints.  Its very simple small scale operation making a big difference in the life of children.

SASEF is compact, concise, respected and our methodologies all the way around are simply - working! 

Thank you for reading my personal and professional thoughts.

Rhonda Staudt

www.sasef.org, rstaudt@sasef.org

PS. perhaps I should have entitled this "A Letter to Myself"



beautiful complexity - Apr 18, 2006 9:14 am (# Total: 132)

Small is Meaningful

Small, big or in between is all relative.  A Rhonda has illustrated big ideas, big impacts can be realized through small organizational structures and growth is related to empowering others to carry a small part of the load. 

I am at the beginning of a process to create a big idea that is based on the small is beautiful perspective.  I am developing a large community asset that will create a supportive environment to generate many small, sustainable initiatives or enterprises.  I am finding the challenge is to make the big abstract idea of sustainable development tangible through many small actions, examples and building one to one relationships. To engage the partners required for the development there must be meaning for each partner - my role is to stitch together this patchwork of meaning into something that holds together as a learning community.  

I am continually refer back to E.F's "Buddhist Economics" and the purpose of work - to learn and apply new skills, to learn to work with others and to earn an income for a becoming existence - to keep me grounded in the fundamentals of small is beautiful thinking.  To me this provides meaning to the abstract by referring back to what we are learning and defining what a becoming existence is in relation to what we are trying to achieve. 

Cheers



Marguerite - Apr 18, 2006 1:33 pm (# Total: 132)

Creating Pathways to Consciousness and Sustainable Living

 

As a retired person, I've designed several organizations directed toward learning how to live in a sustainable manner and which allow one to share knowledge without traveling.  For about 5 years now I've facilitated a "Co-learner's List" via the Internet in which people share knowledge on different subjects and learn from one another.

I am now, taking that knowledge and compiling it into a book entitled The Sacred Quest while creating a complementary website with a more graphic format.  The goal is  to develop co-learner's groups as community learning and information centers around the world so that as knowledge is acquired it can be applied in one's local community. Networked together via the Internet, thousands if not millions of people may thus be working together in a coordinated manner in small local communities on a worldwide basis synergetically to create sustainable living practices while at the same time facilitating change that moves toward peaceful co-existence.   

I see this as creating a worldwide tapestry woven by people holding out their hands to one another via the Internet and crossing borders in a cooperative effort to free the world of violence and suffering, providing a pathway to conscious living for others to follow. It begins with just one small community,which, when many are joined together create a magnificent picture of love and hope for the world.

If you live in, or know of a community that would like to join our network please contact me.

marguerite hampton, facilitator/program designer

Turtle Island Institute/Pathways to Consciousness/Habitats in Harmony Community Learning and Information Center Network

ecopilgrim@aabol.com 

 

  

 

       

 

 

 

 



Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Apr 18, 2006 8:30 pm (# Total: 132)
HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates

Re: [Jim] Small is beautiful and technology

Hi Jim:

Thanks for jumping in here and starting this week’s event off.

I think you're plunging us right into the heart of the issue when you write...
    eBay is a huge tech enterprise that makes many of the small is beautiful concepts much more possible. Is eBay good or bad in this framework?
I think there are really two things going on here: one is that we are questioning whether the bigger the better – an idea that is often taken for granted -- is necessarily true, and the other is that we are trying to figure out what scale is appropriate.

Both issues are inherent in Schumacher’s Small is Beautiful, but that title shouldn’t be taken to mean we need to dichotomize and suggest that Big is Ugly <grin> -- in fact the reason we have two events back to back "pointing in opposite directions" here is precisely that we wanted both the benefits of increasing scale and the benefits of appropriate scale to be addressed without starting a tug-o-war between them.

So to answer your question more directly, I think our framework needs to adjust to fit the good, we don't need to push and pinch the good to fit our framework!

With warm regards…


Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Apr 18, 2006 8:48 pm (# Total: 132)
HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates

Re: [Anil] Small is beautiful and also sustainable

Thanks, Anil, and welcome to Social Edge:

It is always encouraging to see the practical mind at work on matters that used to be thought the province of impractical idealists – more and more I get the sense that idealism and practicality are being seen as two sides of the one coin: call it sustainability, or call it survival.
    THe complexity of the machine will be only till a level that it can be repaired by a local mechanic. This does not make individuals depend on large companies for spare parts, which are generally very expensive.
Schumacher’s Small is Beautiful sometimes seems to be an idea out there on its own – but as your example makes clear, it’s really a matter of thinking in context, it’s a natural part of systems thinking.

    However, these enterprises are small, very small I would like to scale them to a sustainable level as suggested by Schumacher, an organisation of about 100 individuals doing a business of not more than USD 20 million.
And here you are, figuring out an appropriate scale for Small is Beautiful – indeed, scaling it up in an appropriate manner. Paradoxical maybe, but very much in the spirit of Schumacher’s work.



  • In the scaling up event, we fairly quickly came to the conclusion that in the arena of social change, the franchising of ideas and strategies was probably more to the point than the "literal" franchising of a given organization. Here, we seem to be understanding that "small", as in small is beautiful, must be appropriate in scale, not miniature.

    Thanks again, I hope to read more about Naveengram as time permits...


  • anilpansari - Apr 19, 2006 5:30 am (# Total: 132)

    Can we put numbers to our size...

    I have read a few mails saying that they are small and would like to remain small because of certain inherent benefits. I would like to know the size of these organsations.

    A retailer in India doing a turnover can call himself small when compared to Wal-Mart, but is Wal-Mart a benchmark for comparison. In our mad mad craze for numbers we almost always forget the people behind these companies. SInce, organisations don't want to grow larger and larger they increase the 'productivity' by demanding systems and machines which can replace 'human' interference. These complex machines can get as complex as the human mind can think off.

    So let us start putting numbers and say that with so many individuals I will do so much... Might contribute more better to the discussion

    Anil Pansari



    Cynthia Gair - Apr 19, 2006 1:56 pm (# Total: 132)
    REDF, Director, Portfolio and Field Advancement (www.redf.org)

    Scaling Through Ideas Rather Than Infrastructure

    I'm very glad the term "appropriate" has been brought into this discussion, since the question "is the solution appropriate to the problem?" is a more productive question than "should we be small or big." Here at REDF, we've spent much time thinking about how we can spread our successful approach to helping people with severe barriers to employment move out of poverty. We're about to start a new aspect of our work in which we'll experiment with scaling through ideas, rather than through infrastructure. We'll do this by working locally with branches of regionally or nationally networked organizations, with the goal of spreading solutions developed locally throughout these already-existing networks. Because our approach involves a lot of hands-on, person to person work between us and the nonprofits we work with, we think this way of "scaling" will be more appropriate than trying to replicate ourselves in other locations.


    Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Apr 20, 2006 7:04 am (# Total: 132)
    HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates

    Re: [Cynthia] Scaling Through Ideas Rather Than Infrastructure

    Hiynthia, and thanks for your comments.

    You write:
      We're about to start a new aspect of our work in which we'll experiment with scaling through ideas, rather than through infrastructure.
    That's pretty much the same conclusion we've come to in the other "scaling" item, although there it's phrased as franchising ideas rather than infrastructure. It realy does look as though there's only one topic between the two events, that it is the topic of appropriate scaling, and that the main theme is sharing best practices rather than organizations...

    Or is that just an artefact of the way the first event was interrupted by Pesach / Good Friday / Easter?


    Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Apr 20, 2006 7:17 am (# Total: 132)
    HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates

    Re: [Rhonda] Growing stronger smaller?

    Hi Rhonda:

    It’s funny, but your first comment answers a question that has been cropping up in my mind for a while. You write:
      I have been waiting and watching for this particular topic for some time. So please know the "coming soon" column is being read (smile).
    Yes, it is good to know that you “wait and watch” for specific topics. I’m pretty sure our regular posters see the different events as they come up, and join in when they feel they have something to say… But there are a fair number of first time posters in these events, and I sometimes wonder if they just happen on the first event that’s ongoing when they arrive and post there, or decide not to – not that there would be anything wrong with either choice, but because I’m always trying to figure out how to get people coming back and back and back to different events. And that’s because I’m always hoping we’ll reach the point where we “know” a bunch of other SE-ers, and begin to feel we’re in long term conversations among friends which take on the coloration of different events but have components of trust and continuity that go beyond the individual flurry of posts to build a richer sense of identity and community.
      Always asking the questions to ourselves; should we do more, do we need to grow, do we need large offices, how can we raise more money. Why do we need MORE, Why do we need LARGE.
    I think that in a weird way it’s asking the question that’s important, not the particular answer you come to. It keeps us open, it keeps us alert.

    Thanks so much for your post, I hope to read you again here on the Edge from time to time…


    Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Apr 20, 2006 7:27 am (# Total: 132)
    HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates

    Re: [Beautiful Complexity] Small is Meaningful

    Beautiful Complexity, hi!

    I'll bet there's an interesting insight behind your choice of name here on bthe Edhe!



  • Small is meaningful I like it. And I’m a big fan of Buddhist economics too, though it’s not the religion so much as the compassion underlying his thinking that seems crucial here – and Schumacher was a Quaker in any case, wasn’t he? Sitting quietly and listening seems to be the common factor between the two, and a growing compassionate awareness the “output”.

    Best…


  • Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Apr 20, 2006 7:38 am (# Total: 132)
    HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates

    Re: [Marguerite] Creating Pathways to Consciousness and Sustainable Living

    Marguerite:

    Thanks for your post.
      I see this as creating a worldwide tapestry woven by people holding out their hands to one another via the Internet and crossing borders in a cooperative effort to free the world of violence and suffering,
    We have the web and the net, don't we -- the spider's weave, and the fisherman's. If tapestry was a three-letter word... maybe all URLs would start http://wwt...! Women, I suspect, have been doing the bulk of the weaving of conversation and community (as well as tapestries) for some while now -- is it fair to say that? -- and although ARPANET was pretty much a male effort, I'd guess, what we really have now is a technological facilitation for those age-old values.

    So here we are, weaving together on the World Wide Tapestry. I congratulate you on your project, which seems to me to be very much in line with what SocialEdge, too, is trying to do. And what a work of art we create, as our voices and hands work together...


    JessicaMargolin - Apr 21, 2006 3:28 pm (# Total: 132)

    So, "Franchising" has finally caught on then?

    Hey, Charles!

    Nice to "see" you again!

    Glad to hear that the concept of "franchising" is up and running! It seemed pretty zeitgeist-y even when I first brought it up a year ago... it's been my experience that some non-profits are replicable but not extensible; I'm glad a mechanism is being developed to address that.

    Now, any suggestions as to where one gets funding to create an SOP for a group that's ripe to franchise? It's the same one I mentioned long ago, in Southern CA. They've won awards and all that, but "giving talks" isn't the same thing as understanding how Board structure, community alliances, and other components contribute to the success of the undertaking and then creating an operating procedure for other communities who fit the necessary parameters to be able to roll out -- with confidence -- the same programming. And then of course one can experiment with changing the parameters, and grow from there.

    As an alternative I've started writing it up as a screenplay -- not a documentary -- as I think that I'm just *bound* to trip over Jeff sooner or later. ;)

    -Jessica

    http://kitode.typepad.com


    Pamela McLean - Apr 22, 2006 3:20 am (# Total: 132)

    Franchising and vocational training.

    I welcome the discussion on franchising. Unemployment is a huge problem in Nigeria. Cawdnet is exploring ideas for vocational training linked to self-employment and small business development. Such training will build naturally from successful Fantsuam Foundation micro-credit services, the provision of training courses at Fantsuam Foundation Community Learning Centre, and plans for e-learning and other mechnaisms to cascade training to our "satellite" centres. We recognise that for some of our planned ventures the entrepreneuars that we train will need support of various kinds to ensure the long term viability of their businesses. We feel that franchising may well provide the answer, but are ignorant of the practicalities.   

    Pamela McLean

    Cawdnet Convenor
    pam@cawd.net
    http://www.cawd.info/

     

     



    Marguerite - Apr 23, 2006 7:49 pm (# Total: 132)

    ICTs and Vocational Training

    I was delighted to review CAWD and CAWDNET -- an interesting note is that I am currently involved in a "relocalization" effort in a small community in So. Calif. that faces some of the same challenges as does CAWD. Due to the "peak oil" crisis that is about to hit us full on as gas prices escalate, we see the need to grow food locally and learn how to process it for future use. And, guess what,I've just heard some women say "But I don't know how to cook" meaning "from scratch" so use to prepackaged food we are today.  And, I'm sure that before its all over we will be grateful for solar cookers.  So there's going to be a need here for vocatonal training to enable and empower us in relearning survival skills as the costs of transportation make food and other necessities of life unaffordable for the average person as the limits to resources force change of an unprecedented magnitude upon us.  The demand for skilled counselors to aid in facilitating this change will far outstrip the supply as community after community seeks to become self-sustaining and reaches out for assistance.       

    I believe networked ICTs, as CAWD views them as:  "creative combinations of ICTs and human networks" (in small communities if I may add) are the answer, and am currently constructing what is intended to be a major website as part of the worldwide ICT that is spontaniously forming. In this sense, "small is beautiful" as we create spaces for learning/remembering to take place and then apply it at the local level. Since the natural flow of the Universe is from micro to macro this will allow for a natual transformaton to take place which will be "holodynamic" in nature and  replace the hierarchial and unatural structure we have today that leaves us in an  unbalanced and dis-eased position.  

    Simply due to the magnitude of the challenges the human family faces today, micro-management offers the only humane solution which will avoid large numbers of people being dropped through the cracks. 

    marguerite (ecopilgrim@aabole hm

    P.S. My website at www.tii-clics.org needs maintenance and we are working on that as well as getting up several new sites which will provide curriculum for our virtual university.  We are also linked to the International Academy of Holodynamics, another virtual university,hosted by Dr. V. Vernon Woolf, who was instrumental in creating "perestroika" in Russia.  Vern will soon have courses online at the Academy. www.holodynamics.com  Dr. Woolf specializes in the development of high performance teams to manage social change. As well, he is developing a prototype Wellness Center which uses natural healing combined with some conventional methods.  This program has been 10 years in the development stage and is designed to work in small local communities to create change through health practices.

    Thank you Charles, for the opportunity to post here.



    honeymgm - Apr 23, 2006 8:15 pm (# Total: 132)

    Madhukar Small IT Business Cluster. "Intech Centre for social Enterprises"

    I have mailed you from a learning angle on motivating educated graduate unemployed and underemployed youths suffering from exposure to private sector work atmosphere hailing from marginalised sections of our society.

    Our dean Dr R.Bharadwaj renowned Economist and former director of Bombay University, school of economics has conducted a pilot study on this target population in chamrajnagar  one of the most backward district of Karnataka state.Incidentally this district is just about 170kms form worlds IT Capital, Bangalore city in India and our study has found the most pathetic living conditions of graduates and post graduates of Mysore and Bangalore universities. All these unemployeds are also from the most backward communities untouched by opportunities of employment in market economy organisations. There are many areas geographically neglected and sections of population marginalised for centuries in our country. If it interests, I can send the results of that study in  few days time . 

         Hence we have  set up a centre for social enterprise and incubation centre for Social Enterprises(SE) on our campus to expose such students to stimulated, modern corporate atmosphere and then after helping them to get out of their inhibitions asking them to start some small enterprises/businesses of their own in a new atmosphere .

        We are now in a process of net working like minded organisation as there is a vast scope for encouraging SE small businesses in Indian  region.

       Our centre aims at bettering the life of such people by encouraging them to organise and enterprise .I am committed to this mission as I believe, that which changing world perspectives, marginalised sections have to be introduced to institutions of market economy or they will become extinct.

        Your comments on how small these businesses got to be to sustain themselves .Also E-Mouth this information to other like minded or facilitating organisations

    Assoc.Prof. Madhukar 

    Email:intechibm@gmail.com

    Intech Institute Of Business Management.

    Bangalore University 
     Web: intechibm.org

     



    Pamela McLean - Apr 24, 2006 6:13 am (# Total: 132)

    Growing together

    I wish I had time to respond fully to the postings from Prof Madhukar and Marguerite. I would like to follow up areas of overlap with you both. I feel I could spend days talking with each of you exploring ways that our initiatives could complement each other – but resources do not allow. That is ironic really as we would probably find that we are duplicating effort to a ludicrous degree. Let us not forget each other’s interests.

    Nigeria has the same problem that Prof Madhukar describes of graduates with no employment prospects. There are precious few real jobs on offer - unless you know people with influence. The young graduates know they should be doing something more intellectually demanding than subsistence farming, or petty trading - but what opportunities are there for self employment - other than armed robbery? That is not said flippantly - there is no social security system in Nigeria, and armed robbers are a constant threat and reality. There is such a waste of talent amongst Nigerian youths - made more tragic in my opinion because many of the young job-seeking Nigerians that I have met are idealistic, industrious and desirous of helping to create a better Nigeria.

    I have heard of various initiatives that could be relevant for these young people – along small is beautiful lines that would promote genuine community development – but I haven’t got the resources to follow up those tantalising information trails on their behalf so that we can act on them.

     

    Marguerite – I’m glad you relate to CAWD and Cawdnet - I see so much overlap with your concerns too - small-scale developments, enterprise, Californian and Nigerian experiences with solar energy, and more. We have much to learn and we need to learn with each other and from each other, There are so many of us doing similar things - if we consider it all under such headings as sustainable energy, enterprise and livelihoods. We need to come together more effectively – and that is what ICTs are helping us to do. It is simultaneously local and global in ways that “outsiders” do not understand. 

     

    Perhaps this experience/lack-of-experience of the local-global reality is part of the conceptual difficulties that we are have sometimes regarding communication on issues of scalability and funding and suchlike. It occurs to me that the kind of activists I know, in their tiny, struggling and largely self-funded organisations are a bit like parentless children. We are continually pulling ourselves up by our bootstraps, falling on our faces, picking ourselves up, learning from our mistakes, plodding on - because things can’t stay as they are and forwards is the only possible direction. It shouldn’t all have to be learnt in the school of hard knocks. We know where we are headed – but struggle to find the words to express it to people who don’t share experience of our reality

     

    I don’t really think we want to “replicate” or “scale up” our projects and organisations any any more than children want to be cloned – we just want to grow naturally. Currently we are isolated and our growth is stunted.  Our vision and energy is sapped by constant struggle for the basics of day-to-day survival that mature organisations take for granted. We need some respite and nurturing while our organisations/projects/systems continue to learn and develop and grow. We need a chance to grow up more as “part of a family” rather than as “struggling street children”. Then that family will grow, as new collaborations and replications of ideas and projects happen. Maybe I take the analogy too far – but I don’t know how else to express it.

     

    I am trying to express the organic growth of “our kind” of projects and organisations. It comes back to valuing and counting-in the intangibles of information, ideas, networks, trust and all kinds of social capital. It comes back to learning as you go along, within your own projects and through information exchange with other projects. It comes back to equal partnerships, mutual-mentoring, and community-based, needs-led development– development where problems and needs are evident but poorly defined. It comes back to solutions having to emerge – not be pre-defined and imposed.

     

    Hmm - and that of course brings us back to the issue of funding proposals that we were discussing a few days ago…

     

     

     



    JessicaMargolin - Apr 24, 2006 11:33 am (# Total: 132)

    Pamela said: "I don’t really think we want to “replicate” or “scale up” our projects and organisations any any more than children want to be cloned – we just want to grow naturally. Currently we are isolated and our growth is stunted. Our vision and energy is sapped by constant struggle for the basics of day-to-day survival that mature organisations take for granted. We need some respite and nurturing while our organisations/projects/systems continue to learn and develop and grow. We need a chance to grow up more as “part of a family” rather than as “struggling street children”. Then that family will grow, as new collaborations and replications of ideas and projects happen. Maybe I take the analogy too far – but I don’t know how else to express it."

    Interestingly, my thoughts along this line came up because the ED with whom I was writing grants was spending so much time explaining what she was doing yet had ever-increasing requests for more explanation. In other words, it was a way to facilitate getting the 80%+ out there for her so she COULD concentrate on growing "her own" programs.


    Marguerite - Apr 24, 2006 8:26 pm (# Total: 132)

    Re: Funding Use Community Currencies

    My feelings are that writing grant proposals and waiting for funding is like waiting for a personal ride on an Apollo project -- it ain't going to happen and if it does the funding is going to be tailored to the funder's agenda and won't fit yours. There is an excellent book on this put out by Kumarian Press, sorry I can't think of the name of it right now but do a Google for them and search their catalog.  Lot's of good books written by people who have been working in development and in the know at the local level from this publisher if you haven't tapped into them as yet.  

    Really do believe the answer is to create a local currency -- with the price of oil escalating we're going to see a major worldwide depression and the only way to survive this is for communities to delink from the national economy and become a sustainable living community that is self-secure regardless of where they are.  Another resource that is absolutely marvelous on this is: Global Problems and the Culture of Capitalism by Richard H. Robbins.  He also has a website on the Net so again Google for it.  He gives an example of how the Guarani in Venezuela survived for hundreds of years using a local currency and investing in the conventional market when it was to their best advantage and staying out of it when it wasn't. They also practiced a form of agro-forestry which conserved their capital and acted as their savings bank from which they did not spend.  

    I think also that employment opportunities are in short supply.  The statistics are that only 30% of the worldwide laborforce, due to technological advances, is necessary to provide all of the goods and services for the 6 billion plus people on the planet. So, we have a tremendous oversupply of skilled labor.  And while the need is for entrepreneurial skills, we have millions trained in management with no place to go. Also, for the first time in the history of the world in the early 1990's the labor market became delinked from the stock markets as more people derived income from the markets through passive investments than from the efforts of human labor.  (Rifkin - End of Work 1997) Everything is stacked to create more poverty and the push is relentless.   

    I have copied our discussion here and will stay in touch. We must get these ICT's up and running so we have information exchanges going.  Warm regards and love to everyone. 

    marguerite  ecopilgrim@aabol.com



    honeymgm - Apr 24, 2006 9:44 pm (# Total: 132)

    following notes of anilpansari  Pamela McLean Jessica and  MargolinMarguerite down sizing is is a classical thought of all business giants . Down size to profit or scale up to profit and in the process eliminate labour , retrench office staff and  executives ,out source for momentary demand ,ditch people during lull periods and so on with their games.... .Traditional agrarian economies provided more security than the present where do the neoeducateds  go unpredictable corporations, suicidal agrarian economy

    Madhukar

    intechibm@gmail.com



    Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Apr 26, 2006 1:55 pm (# Total: 132)
    HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates

    Re: [Madhukar]

    Prof. Madhukar:

    Thanks for your comments. I’m not sure quite where you are going with your more recent post. As you say, businesses routinely scale up or *downsize* for reasons of ROI, and the results are often not pretty in human terms, What do you see as the solution, how does social entrepreneurship fit into the picture, can downsizing be both profitable and socially healthy?

    Regards,

    Charles


    Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Apr 26, 2006 2:07 pm (# Total: 132)
    HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates

    Re: [Pamela] Growing together

    Hi again, Pamela:

    You write:
      I wish I had time to respond fully to the postings from Prof Madhukar and Marguerite. I would like to follow up areas of overlap with you both. I feel I could spend days talking with each of you exploring ways that our initiatives could complement each other – but resources do not allow. That is ironic really as we would probably find that we are duplicating effort to a ludicrous degree. Let us not forget each other’s interests.
    This must be a fairly comment sentiment among those reading and indeed posting here on SocialEdge – the sense that we’re close to forming connections that could facilitate our work, but don’t quite have the time to pursue those connections at the time of recognizing them.

    One option that we’re considering is having a forum here designed specifically to invite people to make those connections – but I suspect that where very busy social entrepreneurs caught up in working the many details around an undefended project in the field are concerned, the first condition for moving to the stage where such connections are made would be to realize that they can be made slowly in an asynchronous medium such as this one.

    Posting we seems to have common issues, I’m interested and would like to talk more, in other words, is in fact a first step, and I’ll get back to you in a week or so is an acceptable response, with I’ve been thinking a but since you said you were interested in our approach, and realized that one aspect of our work that might work for you too is this-and-this a week or so later beiong a follow up that really kick-starts the detailed transmission of ideas.

    A slower pace may be a viable workaround for being too busy to network right away, I mean.

    Hope this helps,

    Charles


    JessicaMargolin - Apr 26, 2006 2:25 pm (# Total: 132)

    Economies of strategy?

    In my experience, downsizing is wellknown to be a manipulation to increase short term stock price in exchange for longterm value creation, except in relatively rare situation where it's an unfortunately necessary thing to do because of previously inept strategic management in organizations that actually can afford strategic and risk management processes but don't. Ironically, but with no humor, the very people who have instituted the poor systems and mismanaged the organization tend to be the ones who decide who must go when the business is, in effect, failing.

    Unfortunately very small enterprises don't have the risk management or strategic planning resources available to enormous companies, so the real economy in my mind is the ability to have occasional slack to devote to those endeavors, as Pamela says.

    When I first heard a Social Edge talk over a year ago, I ended up with a grid, with the speakers down one side and the reasons I would need to talk with them along the top. In that way, by simply putting a note to myself in a box, I could track which things I needed to bring up with whom.

    It might be a nice enhancement to be able to grid something here, where in addition to a discussion forum there's a series of topics (for example) along one axis and people who need or have resources or ideas in those areas in the other. Some other dimension (color?) could be used to encode the urgency of the situation, so that people could enter notes in the grid box that corresponds to them; maybe an additional dimension (font, shape) would correspond to something else like distribution, or education, or physical materials.

    Sort of a super-bulletin-board; in any case a different way to organize multi-noded information.


    Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Apr 26, 2006 2:34 pm (# Total: 132)
    HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates

    Re: [Marguerite] ICTs and Vocational Training

    Marguerite:

    You write:
      Due to the "peak oil" crisis that is about to hit us full on as gas prices escalate, we see the need to grow food locally and learn how to process it for future use.
    I've invited a friend over to join us, a man who designs sustainable and highly efficient systems in Alaska:

    http://biorealis.com/resumes/projects.html

    I'd be very interested to see his response to your comment.



  • Re your name, Turtle Island Institute... I'm a big fan of Gary Snyder, incidentally. I once had the privilege of co-teaching a course with GS, Richard Nelson and Paul Shepard at Lake Tahoe… what a fine group!


  • Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Apr 26, 2006 2:56 pm (# Total: 132)
    HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates

    Re: [Jessica] Economies of strategy?

    Hello again, Jessica:

    And thanks for all your contributions here.
      When I first heard a Social Edge talk over a year ago, I ended up with a grid, with the speakers down one side and the reasons I would need to talk with them along the top. In that way, by simply putting a note to myself in a box, I could track which things I needed to bring up with whom.
    I was thinking a while back that we could make an overall SE grid with places (parts of the world) along one axis, and topics (areas of interest, expertise, need) along the other, and invite people to log in and “populate” it – then the Social Entrepreneur Index was started, and served some of those functions.
      It might be a nice enhancement to be able to grid something here, where in addition to a discussion forum there's a series of topics (for example) along one axis and people who need or have resources or ideas in those areas in the other. Some other dimension (color?) could be used to encode the urgency of the situation, so that people could enter notes in the grid box that corresponds to them; maybe an additional dimension (font, shape) would correspond to something else like distribution, or education, or physical materials.
    I have no idea of the feasibility of your idea in terms of software, design etc, but it seems to address the same kind of concern, but from a personal / distributed angle.

    As it happens – way above my head – Anthony Judge recently published an account of toroidal grids, suggesting they are superior to matrixes in handling the challenge to richer comprehension and how it needs to match the complexity of policy-making -- especially when different factions prefer to order their understanding of complex systems in different ways If your head for math is clearer than mine – which seems entirely likely – you might be interested to read his comments:

    http://www.laetusinpraesens.org/musings/torus.php#from

    !!

    Warm regards,

    Charles


    surya prakash.Vinjamuri - Apr 26, 2006 9:03 pm (# Total: 132)
    Life-Health Reinforcement Group

    Being Small or Being big

    Checked in to this dialogue at the fag end but I like to place these in front of the group:

    • Being small is being big at heart
    • Being small is being sure
    • Being small allows you to take informed decisions
    • Being small says you are serious
    • Being small says that you are available
    • Being small states that you are accountable
    • Being small says you are contended
    • Being small says you are prepared to stretch to survive

    These are learnings gained through the work we are involved in.



    Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Apr 27, 2006 9:46 am (# Total: 132)
    HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates

    Re: [Surya Prakash] Being Small or Being big

    Interesting -- thanks for those points, Surya Prakash...

    Charles


    isbume - Apr 28, 2006 9:03 am (# Total: 132)

    Small Business Incubation Facilitites for Economic Dev. in Nigeria

    Dear Pamela, I am very much delighted to know that you are in Nigeria and you are doing a great work.  My name is Segun Benson, a British-trained Nigerian professional with many years of experience in consultancy and training.  I will like to meet with you as I am very much involved in this idea of small business incubation facilities which I developed as a way of achieving an integrated entrepreneurial development in rural areas of Ogun State, Nigeria.  Recently, I presented a paper to the 4th Global Conference on Business and Economics, which took place at the Oxford University, Oxford, England: 26-28th June, 2005.

    It is true that there is need for entrepreneurship development, but we need to identify the sector area to be developed in order to achieve sustainability for our youths and unemployed graduates.  I feel that small business incubation concept with solve this problem greatly.  The paper which I presented to the conference is titled: The Dynamics of Small Business Incubation Facilities in Fadama Areas of Ogun State, Nigeria: An Anti-Poverty Device.  If you are interested, I will send a copy to you.

    I will like to discuss with you further on how we can network here in Ogun State, Nigeria.  I am the current President of Kings & Priests Network Nigeria (a non-governmental organisation) as well as the President and Head of Missions of the Institute of Small Business Management and Entrepreneurship here in Abeokuta, Ogun State.

    I really believe that small is beautiful and the only way we can make it work in the area of entrepreneurship in Nigeria is to focus on high-growth enterprises in the area of agro-industrial development in the rural areas.

    Please, let us talk further. 

    Meanwhile, remain blessed.

    Segun Benson



    Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Apr 29, 2006 9:27 am (# Total: 132)
    HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates

    Re: [Segun] isbume

    Segun:

    Thank you so much for your post above -- this is exactly the kind of connection and "mutual aid" that SocialEdge hopes to encourage. I hope that both yourself and Pam will keep us informed as to the results of this contact.

    Regards,

    Charles


    Pamela McLean - Apr 29, 2006 3:48 pm (# Total: 132)

    And small is....

    Thank you Surya Prakash for the list "Small is ….". In addtion I also suggest that small is:

    ·          Knowing where you are going and why

    ·          Finding others who are going in the same direction and working together.

    ·          Fitting in with what's happening elsewhere and going along with it - as long as it won't  take you backwards.

    ·          Moving ahead with frequent changes of direction (like a yacht tacking across the wind

    ·          Seldom going straight ahead  (we can’t go like a powerboat that can over-ride local winds and currents).

    ·          “Learning by trial and error, error, error”  - to quote Buckminster Fuller via Donella Meadows. (Thanks to Charles for the links  to Donella Meadow's work).

    ·          Being rich in things you *can't quantify* like trust, relationships, ideas, local knowledge, networks, vision.

    ·          Being poor in things you *can quantify* like buildings, equipment, finance. 
      

     


      



    Pamela McLean - Apr 29, 2006 5:15 pm (# Total: 132)

    Nigerian follow-up

    Hello Segun

     

    I am happy to hear from you. Please do send me a copy of your paper.

     

    First I had better clarify my involvement and geographical location.

     

    I live in the UK and spend “working holidays” in Nigeria. I got involved in community development projects “by accident” in 2000 when a Nigerian friend in the UK wanted help with some emails and phone calls and such like. I never expected my involvement to grow the way that it has – and never expected it would include going to Africa. I have now been to Nigeria seven times on what can probably best be described as “working holidays”. My home computer has come to serve as a kind of  “UK office” for various development initiatives. And I have found myself deeply involved with some of the work on the ground that my African friends are doing.

     

    When I am in the UK I can be helpful because I know what is happening in the projects and I have a broadband connection 24/7. Because I am “bandwidth rich” and my friends in Nigeria range from “bandwidth challenged” to “bandwidth starved”, I can be a kind of pro-active information channel on their behalf. In that role I have to get my head around a lot of information, so I am a lot less ignorant than I was six years ago. 

     

    I also have a teaching and training background, plus some knowledge of ICTs and systems, all of which has led to a long-standing interest in the relationship between educational systems and ICTs. This means that I am intrigued by how we can make the most of the improving communication channels that we now have (between the “connected community” and the rural community networks that I link with) in order to improve opportunities (formal and informal) for relevant education and training. Of course given the lack of employment opportunities we have to think about vocational education and business incubation. We are also concerned with health education and any other practical knowledge that is beneficial for community development.

     

    To get an idea of what I do when I am in Nigeria see some news and photos from my trip to Kaduna State in February 2006 (emphasising links with schools).  News  http://www.cawd.info/home/writeup/#blog-9  Photos http://www.cawd.info/home/writeup/#blog-10  Other activities and more photos can be found at http://www.cawd.net/daisy/CawdNet/g1/748.html  There’s not much about the health work there. We don’t really have the resources to get more that a flavour of things up on the Internet.  Our small business ideas don’t feature there yet eithere as we don’t say we are doing things until we really have something to show – but I can tell you more about “work in progress” if we discuss ideas together. 

     

    The community projects I am most concerned with are in Oyo State, and Kaduna State, but I do have additional links with projects elsewhere in Nigeria and some other African countries. I also try to network with people in various virtual communities if it seems they have interests that overlap ours.

     

    Please tell me more about your work in Ogun State. Let us “rub minds” and see how we can finds ways to improve what we are doing by sharing information about what we are doing.

     

    Pam


    Marguerite - May 2, 2006 7:35 pm (# Total: 132)

    Creating Community Learning and Information Centers

    Charles, thanks for inviting someone knowledgable in sustainable living to the forum.  The Turtle Island Institute name came from Gary Snyder's poem; however, I am closely associated with Native Americans on both sides of the Border and live in a wilderness area of So. Calif. not too far from the Border.   

    Let me tell you where I am coming from.  In 1997, I wrote a proposal which was presented at the highest level of the Mexican government, and which was received with interest.  The proposal, entitled: Hands Across the Border: Operation Lifesave was to build the Ecological Life Systems Institute along with a model for a sustainable community in So. Mexico -- possibly in Chiapas.  The construction of the community was to have been accomplished by *campesinos* who were potential migrants and the purpose of this was to dramatically reduce migration from south to north and as well make Mexico a model for sustainable development for the world thru ecological restoration.  The plan was for the government to pay for the "hands-on education" for the campesinos and in addition they would have been compensated for their time and provided with room and board.  In return, upon graduation from the University, each campesino would agree to committ the next five years to going out into other areas of Mexico and starting a satellite ELSI CAMPUS andcompleting other sustainable communities in the adjacent region.  In this manner, the whole of Mexico could have been ecologically restored and business development based in sustainability would create jobs for millions of potential migrants. 

    There is funding for this type of project available from the UN as it fits into Agenda 21.  What is necessary is to lobby the Congress of Mexico (or another country) to request the funding from the UN. At that time, the governemnt would have provided us with the land to do the first project.  But in spite of interest from the gov't the project never came together -- perhaps it was just not the time. 

    However, when I grasped what could be accomplished in this manner, I said: "why not do a "virtual institute" and we could then create "community learning and information centers worldwide  (spaces in which community members could come together and learn how to make their community sustainable aided by courses and info from the website) That vision is now coming into being as I am involved with several volunteers who are creating the online Institute. Funding has always been a problem and then all of a sudden a team comes together. So maybe this is the time. An associate and I are now involved in a small community in So. Cal. where I live in facitating transformation to relocalization and sustainable living. However, the gas prices have not as yet reached the "high" that will push the needed change, but it is in site now at $3.29 a gallo