Social entrepreneurship and the corporate world

Hanniah welcome,

For us a small org in the business and social enterprise is something of a double-edged sword. On one hand , the advocacy for business to be more "people-centered" in its role within the community, is something we can reasonably claim to have pioneered with my colleague and founder's white paper on the subject delivered to US government. On the other, as a small business providing software and services to corporations for our core funding, ours are much the same problems as any small company with a dominant supplier.

What we do at the sharp end is advocacy and activism. Our founder working overseas, raises awareness of social issues and delivers strategy papers to government. Business feature large in such proposals. What he's pioneered is the leverage of development aid to be used as seed capital for new business creation, taking impoverished people into sustainable livelyhoods.

For example, in 1999 he had the opportunity to leverage a microcredit`bank in Siberia which applied this model to achieve full cost recovery. Now we are targeting the government of Ukraine with a microeconomic Marshall Plan while keeping up the pressure on the case of children abandoned into institutional care.

This one might think would build kudos for the revenue creating business. The reality is far from it. We have many who simply don't pay their bills on time, if at all. It's a business which built up a reputation for good service over 20 years, now going downhill since migrating to a social business. For me, with more than 30 years in this industry as a developer, there is no work to be found at all in over a year.

In truth, the corporations we serve have no interest in our social mission if they are aware of it, at all.

For our kind of social business, other than simply paying suppliers on time, what they could do is obvious - deploy our social model, free and opensource, in their own projects or fund one of ours to replicate the social outcome with full cost recovery.

Jeff

Dear Jeff, Thank you for starting the discussion off and for your thoughtful input. It is a real shame that after 20 years of service provision a successful business’s reputation can be compromised by a move to social business. I think it would be very helpful to the discussion if you provided some more details of your social model and how it can be deployed in large businesses.

Certainly Hanniah, Our model is that of a business investing its profit into social and community purpose which was delivered to the US President's re-election committee in 1996. It advocated abandonment of the nonprofit model completely in favour of a social purpose model which adopted a more inclusive form of capitalism, where compassion would replace greed retaining the same bottom line while coexisting with conventional business in the free market system of economics.

It is described on our website in synopsis. Central to the model was the role of information technology, recognising that at the beginning of the Information Age, information poverty would be the inheritance of those disenfranchised from the Industrial Age and that those whose existence was threatened by poverty could be expected to respond, by whatever means available including terrorism.

http://www.p-ced.com/History/tabid/57/Default.aspx

The approach before and since I joined was to leverage development funding to be deployed in microeconomic development. In 1999 our founder took the model to Russia when top down development had floundered, with a strategy plan to try it another way, bottom up. His investment, around $4000 was to yield a consultancy fee in return and the microcredit bank, central to the strategy was to result in 10,000 new businesses, with women outnumbering men at a ratio of 4:1 as borrowers. Full cost recovery of the $8m invested was achieved over a 5 year project, in contrast with the losses of the Defense Enterprise Fund which preceded it.

I introduced the founder and his model in the UK in 2004, prior to the existence of community interest companies, with what seemed to be a not invented here response. I wrote to the chair of the social enterprise coalition at her House of Lords address and recieved no reply, I offered to present the microcredit bank success story to our APPG on microfinance in the year of microfinance 2004 and was turned down flat. We put together a proposal for a community broadband service and got refused funding from ICOF because we were not a full I&P registered cooperative and were refused by all other social funders because we weren't a registered charity. Our founder on a 3 month leave to enter the UK was subsequently refused entry, as a "suspected economic migrant" and we had to find a way of operating with a director stuck overseas. The only place affordable for us to keep him was back in the former Soviet Union.

There was unfinished business in Ukraine. Having moved on from Russia, a proposal had been delivered to invest in the repatriated Islamic Tatar population in Crimea. Someone in local government wanted changes in their favour which were unacceptable and the project was blocked by my colleague rather than accept anything looking remotely like graft. He was able to block it as a copyright business proposal. At the time there was $40m on the table.

Now in Ukraine, we have resubmitted the Crimea proposal in the light of changed attitudes to corruption and for the past year, have a national scale proposal delivered to government, it proposes joint social investment between Ukraine and the US to provide homes for all institutionalised children, deploy a profit generating and affordable rural broadband infrastructure, open a national microcredit bank and a new faculty for social enterprise. So, a mix of projects some more others less than full cost recovery, to yeild nil overall cost in the project duration. At the same time we campaign, raising awareness of child poverty and the particular case of homes for the disabled, which we have described in our journalism as "Death Camps for Children"

I then adopted an existing software business to provide core funding for this project, such that it corresponded to the original paradigm of a P-CED business and met our DTI definitions of a social enterprise for a business returning more than 50% of profit to social purpose.

So, we can demonstrate that for a little effort, in all an investment of a few thousand dollars by one small business could yield such things as a microcredit bank, a community housing project or even go as far as a national scale Marshall Plan against poverty. Large businesses could engage us for our service offerings such that we could continue this work, they could also make similar investments themselves for social outcomes which cost them nothing.

Dear Jeff, thank you for putting in so much time in order to give a more detialed look at your model. I have to say it is very innovative but unfortunatly simply has been marred by circumstance. Do you think that if you had a better platform from which to launch it and raise it’s profile or perhaps get someone/or corporation with a high profile to champion it there might be a chance for it to begin to be applied more?

Dear Hanniah, In some ways it may have served its purpose already, raising awareness of the profit for purpose paradigm. On the other hand, in the wider context as a methodology for international development it may not be as widely understood, with perhaps one notable exception.

http://www.csis.org/smartpower/

In many ways the world is moving in the right direction. Yunus has come out in favour of social business reiterating the points about making capitalism more inclusive and the risk of terrorism in neglected communities. Bill Gates, an unlikely advocate only a few years ago is beginning to turn around.

What we have left to do, is see through the current project and create enough revenue to support it. It would be big enough to occupy the remainder of our working lives, though the opportunity to take it elsewhere, the developing world, is appealing. At least there might be someone to pick up the baton and run with it.

Jeff

Hi Hanniah, Good evening from Scotland.Before I say much more I just would like to thank Charles(Hipbone)Cameron for introducing me toSocial Edge last year; and I want to wish him and all his the very best in this New Year. My work as a Social Entrepreneur in the business sense began shortly after I learned of the devastation caused by hurricane Ivan to the island of Grenada W.I on 07/09/2004 .see http://www.grenadarelief.co.uk Since tnen, I have recently06/02/2008 become a Scottish Private Limited Company No33748 ,Registrar of Companies ,Companies House Edinburgh.Iam awaiting full accreditation from OSCR (the Office of the Scottish Charities Regulator)to become a charitable company limited by guarrantee inorder to effect my objectives which i will share with you in subsequent discussion/dialogue Where do now I go from here? The questions you pose are relevant to my situation.I believe i have demonstrated that i possees the attributes. capacity and achievemnts to call myself a Social entrepreneur,however if Iam going to sustain what has so far been a self-funded venture then I will need to become an entrepreneurial manager/stroke businessman in order to sustain and extend the reach of my social mission. I shall pause here for the time being and return.I have been reading and rereading a short paper by Professor J.Gregory Dees.'The Meaning of "Social Entrepreneurship" which I have found thought provoking and helpful in clarifying what lies in terms of the leverage I require that will release the full potential of my initiative.Best wishes. Aye Dseeavid

Please correct my spelling and grammar.Many thanks. Aye David

Hi David, Good morning from London and thanks so much for taking the time to take part in the discussion. From what you write you are indeed the exact profile of person whose input due to experience would be invaluable to discovering challenges and possible solutions to social entrepreneur/corporate engagement. One challenge that I think you have already identified through your preliminary comments is that lack of information available to potential social entrepreneurs on future steps for sustainability or indeed ‘where to go from here’. I look forward to hearing your thoughts on the dilemma and on Professor Dees’s paper.

Hi Hanniah

An interesting set of challenges and questions.

My view - from a background in the City (I used be a Director of a futures exchange, for what that's worth) is that the problem lies in the legal and financial relationships ("enterprise model") that we take for granted, and that we have to look to a ne weneterprise model for a solution.

That is why I have been working in Scotland (with some Norwegian government funding) on new partnership-based tools - the "Hanseatic Microfinance Initiative" - aimed at enabling "Public"; "Private" and "Third" Sectors to work together to better effect.

But to address your questions

• What do social entrepreneurs need from big businesses in order to grow rapidly and sustainably?

In two words "Money's Worth" in resources generally, and in particular the "Intellectual Capital" available in big corporations. This is not just the people - it may also be new ideas and concepts requiring development, but not necessarily ready (or considered not viable) for a "commercial" environment.

A case in point is a Norwegian company I know which has radical new heat exchanger technology with application both for marine engines and desalination. The shareholders clearly direct investment "where the money is" leaving potentially hugely beneficial technology "on the shelf".

We believe that our partnership structure (which has cross border application) can bring to bear "socially responsible" investment in a new and "win/win" way on such intellectual property.

We are looking for "venture philanthropists" right now.

• Can examples like Grameen Bank and the mainstreaming of micro-finance in major banks help inform replicable projects in other sectors?

I believe that the fact that "micro-finance" has gone "mainstream" is not a sign of success but failure. Major banks are not altruists, regrettably, and the returns they perceive will come at the expense of the poor.

I have never seen why it is that the route out of poverty need involve putting the poor into debt.

We have developed two new partnership-based micro-finance tools which together comprise our "Initiative":

(a) the "Guarantee Society" - which is the mutual guarantee of "bilateral "trade" credit - this is "interest-free", but not "cost-free", since a provision is made into a "Pool" to cover operating costs and defaults;

(b) the "Capital Partnership" - a mechanism for micro-investment (irrespective of the legal form of the micro-enterprise) through sharing "n'ths" of production or revenues in "co-owned" assets.

Interestingly, both techniques are Islamically sound at a fundamental level.

• How can big businesses reach out to front-line social entrepreneurs who are not included in the formal debate (conferences and workshops) on partnering but whose practical experiences could be of value to corporations?

Probably by working with a "service provider" partner whose role it will be to deliver working partnerships, and who are paid mainly by the outcome, rather than the hour or day.

Best Regards

Chris Cook

Dear Chris, Thank you for introducing some very interesting concepts to the discussion. ‘Intellectual capital’ is rarely mentioned within the standard resources (money, personnel, products etc) that large companies can aid social entrepreneurs with; nevertheless it could be a very potent resource for social entrepreneurs. However taking account of intellectual property rights including patents, trade marks, and copyrights etc do you feel that big businesses are forthcoming in sharing intellectual capital?

I do agree partly with you on the fact that the mainstreaming of micro-credit does not necessarily mean success because the needs of each region/community have to be met within context. However the misuse of the concept by some self-interested banks should not necessarily discredit the emancipating potential of micro-credit. Though on another level as a concept it has helped to ‘inform’ your microfinance tools if only by its deficiencies.

I am very interested to find out more about the tools and their application. Are you currently working on implementing these with partners? Also as a slightly off route question you mentioned that both the tools are Islamically sound at the fundamental level, was this due to potential application in specifically Islamic regions/communities?

Global FUTURE IP by and for the people own ideas For FUTURE Vs ..see.. www.futurevisionaries.com Kent G anderson Home -701-223-0639

David, I agree with you that Charles has been a valuable networker to connect people with Social Edge and each other.

I've posted a link to a blog article I wrote that focuses on the role corporations can take to support social entrepreneurs and non profit innovators. In the blog is a link to an article titled "Strategy & Society: The Link Between Competitive Advantage and Corporate Social Responsibility." Written by Michael E. Porter and Mark R. Kramer. http://tutormentor.blogspot.com/2007/12/many-to-one-not-one-to-many.html

If we can help corporations unleash the talent of their employees, and the leadership of their organizations, for strategic goals, which could be product related, or could relate to organizational goals, such as workforce development or diversity.

I use maps to point to areas of the Chicago region where poverty is concentrated, in an attempt to help corporations with multiple locations think of strategies that distribute support in all of the places where they do business, rather than one or two high profile places.

Are others using visual tools to help aid corporate thinking?

Dear Daniel, Thank you so much for the link, which is particularly informative in this context and for this discussion. The visual tools are a great example of how companies can strategically involve themselves in the communities in which they operate. As I mentioned in my initial introduction a well-managed partnership with a social entrepreneur can increase the ability of the company to assess the needs of and access to consumers at the base of the economic pyramid. In my view your program locator (http://www.tutormentorprogramlocator.net/programlocator/default.asp) for example does exactly that as ‘business partners can use these maps to determine where to offer talent, leadership, dollars and technology to help existing programs, provide constantly improving services, and to help create new programs where needed’. Though what would you say about interest from business leaders in the utilization of such visual tools?

I would be very interested in finding out if there are other people designing or using similar visual tools.

I'm in the process of updating all of my maps and will begin producing a new wave in early April. With these our goal is to do overlays that show businesses, churches, hospitals and universities operating in or near areas with high poverty and poor schools. Our aim is to help people who share the same geography to begin to connect with each other on mutually beneficial work. Our goal is also to teach businesses to use maps as an analysis tool. If you map the locations of your business, and overlay this with poverty, poor schools and tutor/mentor programs, you can begin to develop a strategy that supports non profits in all areas where you do business, not just a few random choices.

The biggest obstacle I have is that most business is already deeply involved in some form of social benefit work, which makes it harder for them to step back and think of this from a big-picture perspective asking "is what we're doing enough; or is there more we could be doing?"

So we need to keep reminding them of why it is important for them to get involved. I do that with articles I post at http://tutormentor.blogspot.com

I feel that many of the social entrepreneurs in the world would find greater support if they would build web based portals like the T/MC site, devoted to the work they and others like them are doing. That way instead of just one innovator knocking on doors and trying to get attention, many innovators focused on the same goal, but in different places, could be sharing the work of getting business attention.

It just takes one person to take this role.

There is something to be said for the need for collective action in order to get things done. For example on the businesses side it has been found a lot more fruitful for companies operating in areas with lax human rights or violations (if these are applicable to its direct business operations or primary contractors it can be seen as complicit) to engage with governments collectively rather than as a single company. This is because individual initiatives might be seen by the sovereign government as antagonistic and may affect the company’s corporate license to operate. It is an example from the other side of the spectrum but I think it highlights the importance to standing together when maintaining a dialogue with an entity operating on a much larger scale. Perhaps what is needed is a large scale ‘social entrepreneur forum’.

Dear Hanniah:

While many corporate sectors are directly or indirectly involved in building social infrastructure of a community namely education, health care, housing, economic development, culture, sports, civic measures, environment development and improvement of other human environments, the questions raised are? Are these corporate initiatives ensuring full participation of the poor, the marginalised and the disabled in the economic and developmental process? Are their rights and duties in a civil society enforced? Are their corporate partnership initiatives geared towards meeting the major social development issues namely I. Eradication of poverty II. Expansion of productive employment and reduction of unemployment and III. Fostering social integration? How do nonprofit business collaborations respond to these vital issues?

Corporate sectors have to work in alliance with nonprofits on a long-term basis in effectively delivering the community services such as 1.strengthening primary education especially in rural areas 2.primary health care initiatives 3.micro-enterprise lending programmes for the poor 4. Provision of drinking water 5. Environmental awareness and sustainable development programmes 6.promoting children’s rights 7.Preventive health education for adults on alcoholism and drug abuse, HIV/AIDS 8. Promoting peace and communal harmony in the community and 9.Building NGO capacity.

Dear Chris, thank you so much for your comment. I am a strong believer that community service provision gaps can be filled by the private/corporate sector in countries where state provision is lagging through responsible business practice. I feel this is due to the smaller scale/flexible characteristics of company CSR policies that can be responsive to the communities in which they operate. But in order to do this engagement/information exchange is needed with non-profits or social entrepreneurs to identify existing gaps in social provision. However as with everything in the world, intention is everything. If there is genuine interest within the company to gear the CSR policy towards community service and development then a partnership with a non-profit might be successful and long-term.

Big businesses (as Hanniah puts it) need to first have a change in mindset that 1) CSR can be a profitable, growth-oriented and sustainable strategy (and not to be relegated as an act of philanthropy or charity for businesses to build social capital), and 2) that the poor in developing and emerging markets are both potential consumers and partners, if only big businesses see them less as victims but more as resilient, value-conscious and innovative members of society.

Without the mindset change of big businesses, it will be an uphill challenge for social entrepreneurs to approach them for collaboration. We need to create greater awareness of social entrepreneurship via education and training and providing best-in-class (and replicable) examples of social innovation projects that were initiated and managed by private-sector enterprises (such as Unilever, SC Johnson & Co, and Danone to name a few), local entrepreneurs and civic and government officials. Because each group has a stake in the project, the parties involved will naturally put in a more conscientious effort to make the project a success. It's a total win-win-win scenario.

We need more than just the Grameen Bank or kiva.org examples to push forward the social entrepreneurship agenda as social entrepreneurship is so much more than just microfinancing. The bigger picture involves big businesses collaborating with the local community and social entrepreneurs, and together coming up with innovative solutions (be it financing, product development, marketing or distribution) to overcome local barriers so that the community as a whole will benefit with social, economic and environmental development.

How can big businesses reach out to front-line social entrepreneurs? Let's start with the UN agencies. Perhaps they can form a link and be the broker between private-sector enterprises and social entrepreneurs and the local communities.

Agree Sandra, on win-win scenarios. Here for example an extract from the paper that took 11 years to filter through, on the subject of changing the business mindset, and the far reaching implications of making it so.

"Substitute personal greed with compassion, and the balance sheets will still work out just fine. Profit/loss statements take on a whole new dimension and meaning. Greed and capitalism are not one and the same thing. "Social" capitalism, social enterprise, is perfectly doable. This is the most effective sustainable strategy available for alleviating widespread human suffering stemming from poverty and all that comes with it

up to and including terrorism."

Now, I have to say from personal experience of UN agencies, these are not the ideal advocacies. Due to graft demands, we blocked one of our own projects, something of a landmark in the willingness of US Govt to fund development in an Islamic community and behind us came UNDP attempting to replicate using our founders work with a budget 200 times the actual cost of proposal delivery.

Now of corporations, I can offer an example. The Guardian media group has begun it's own development project in Uganda. By coincidence, one part of this group is my customer as a social business. This newspaper, whose credentials for journalism and integrity are not in doubt, are totally unaware that they contribute to economic development work elsewhere by virtue of just being a customer.

Now, the editor asks. Tell us about what you're doing in international development and I do, pointing out that they are already contributing. Do you imagine I got any response?

Dear Sandra, You are absolutely right in that it is a win-win situation if the partnership is managed properly and for this ‘brokers’ can be an excellent resource. However do you feel that organisations operating on the sheer scale of the UN can in fact deliver on partnerships like the ones you envisage (local communities, local barriers) effectively and rapidly?

I am also completely in agreement with the point that there is a need for: ‘greater awareness of social entrepreneurship via education and training and providing best-in-class (and replicable) examples of social innovation projects that were initiated and managed by private-sector enterprises (such as Unilever, SC Johnson & Co, and Danone to name a few), local entrepreneurs and civic and government officials’

In addition to changing the ‘mind set’ of businesses, readily available access to such resources (case studies, examples of projects) would assist potential and exiting partnerships in identifying cases of best practice in their field and through replication, modification or indeed creation of new initiatives could lead to further social innovation.

The problem that however remains is how to make all this information accessible to all the parties that could benefit from it (big businesses, social entrepreneurs, civil society and governments) especially in face of the above-mentioned circumstance that social entrepreneurs in particular might be missing from the conventional formal information network including: Education and Training = Conferences, work shops, round tables, conventions etc (unless conventional formal education in universities begins to address these issues in business, management and economic development degrees). Best in-class examples = issue briefs, case studies etc.

Clearly an in addition to creating awareness about social entrepreneurship an innovative approach to this creation sorely is needed.

Nice forum. I find that generally big businesses do not reach out to front line social entrepreneurs. In my experience the life ofthe socia entrepreneur is extra tough in that it is up to us to go and chase around the corporate world at our own expense. The problem with much CSR is that it is conference centric, and in my view it is becoming one big academic baloon, where people have a very slim idea of what really happens on the field. Since I have set up Alchemy World www.alchemyworld.org I have found that interacting with corporates a frustrating experience in a way as it means enetring a theoretical realm. I would genuinely welcome CRS people that are interested in the trenches not just the academic papers published. Carlo

Dear Carlo, Thankyou for your personal response. I think that the problem you are facing are probably echoed the world over by social entrepreneurs, that of being able to identify big businesses with genuine interests in social enterprise and with whom a partnership will be a mutually beneficial one. One of the solutions (excuse me for tooting my own organisations horn) is to not go it alone but as Chris mentioned earlier ‘working with a "service provider" partner whose role it will be to deliver working partnerships’. The IBLF for example is one such organisation, which helps to form and maintain such partnerships. You can learn more about our involvement with social enterprise and entrepreneurs at http://www.iblf.org/activities/Business_Standards/Enterprise.jsp.

I completely agree with your thoughts on the over theorizing of the concept due to the conference culture which excludes a lot of voices from the ‘trenches’. I am very hopeful that this online forum will help in attending to this problem or help come up with new innovative solutions. Any takers??

Big businesses (as Hanniah puts it) need to first have a change in mindset that 1) CSR can be a profitable, growth-oriented and sustainable strategy (and not to be relegated as an act of philanthropy or charity for businesses to build social capital), and 2) that the poor in developing and emerging markets are both potential consumers and partners, if only big businesses see them less as victims but more as resilient, value-conscious and innovative members of society.

Without the mindset change of big businesses, it will be an uphill challenge for social entrepreneurs to approach them for collaboration. We need to create greater awareness of social entrepreneurship via education and training and providing best-in-class (and replicable) examples of social innovation projects that were initiated and managed by private-sector enterprises (such as Unilever, SC Johnson & Co, and Danone to name a few), local entrepreneurs and civic and government officials. Because each group has a stake in the project, the parties involved will naturally put in a more conscientious effort to make the project a success. It's a total win-win-win scenario.

We need more than just the Grameen Bank or kiva.org examples to push forward the social entrepreneurship agenda as social entrepreneurship is so much more than just microfinancing. The bigger picture involves big businesses collaborating with the local community and social entrepreneurs, and together coming up with innovative solutions (be it financing, product development, marketing or distribution) to overcome local barriers so that the community as a whole will benefit with social, economic and environmental development.

How can big businesses reach out to front-line social entrepreneurs? Let's start with the UN agencies. Perhaps they can form a link and be the broker between private-sector enterprises and social entrepreneurs and the local communities.

Dear Sandra, You are absolutely right in that it is a win-win situation if the partnership is managed properly and for this ‘brokers’ can be an excellent resource. However do you feel that organisations operating on the sheer scale of the UN can in fact deliver on partnerships like the ones you envisage (local communities, local barriers) effectively and rapidly?

I am also completely in agreement with the point that there is a need for: ‘greater awareness of social entrepreneurship via education and training and providing best-in-class (and replicable) examples of social innovation projects that were initiated and managed by private-sector enterprises (such as Unilever, SC Johnson & Co, and Danone to name a few), local entrepreneurs and civic and government officials’

In addition to changing the ‘mind set’ of businesses, readily available access to such resources (case studies, examples of projects) would assist potential and exiting partnerships in identifying cases of best practice in their field and through replication, modification or indeed creation of new initiatives could lead to further social innovation.

The problem that however remains is how to make all this information accessible to all the parties that could benefit from it (big businesses, social entrepreneurs, civil society and governments) especially in face of the above-mentioned circumstance that social entrepreneurs in particular might be missing from the conventional formal information network including: Education and Training = Conferences, work shops, round tables, conventions etc (unless conventional formal education in universities begins to address these issues in business, management and economic development degrees). Best in-class examples = issue briefs, case studies etc.

Clearly an in addition to creating awareness about social entrepreneurship an innovative approach to this creation sorely is needed.

I'd better quickly thank David Miles Hanschell for his New Year's greeting and Dan Bassill for his kind words - and then offer a tip of the hat to Jeff Mowatt and Chris Cook - all of which allows me to say I feel a sense of community developing here in your item, which is obviously richly interesting and drawing a terrific group of participants.

My own concern is for the fullest human participation in whatever networks the socially committed and enterprising can bring together, here on the Edge or in partnerships of the kind you're proposing, and I'm beginning to think that's a matter of finding a balance between the generous and pragmatic parts of our psyche. The generous part "feels like" it should be untrammeled, the pragmatic part "feels like" where there's no discipline, there's waste - and both parts work best when they're coupled, when our generosity is disciplined and our discipline is generous.

I'm not sure whether that will make sense for anyone but myself, but it seems as though we have two complementary systems for valuation, and each needs to be able to listen to the other. Perhaps "social entrepreneurship" and "the corporate world" are the same two systems writ large.

*

I would also just like to say, as an expat Britisher currently in Arizona, how much I appreciate HRH's efforts from this side of a fairly wide ocean...

Good morning and let me say it is wonderful to have you be part of this discussion as you seem to be something of a legend at the socialedge. I think your comments on balancing the two sides makes complete sense on a lot of levels. The major reason for the success of Multi-stakeholder partnerships is the fact that it brings every side to the table. One some level it brings the generous, the pragmatic and some that are a combination of the two into the dialogue. As a (non-practising) Muslim I can also say that the concept of a ‘balance’ is a major theme running through Muslim views on economics and development where a balance necessarily needs to be found between the quest for material wealth and the quest for spiritual salvation and hence between the generous and the pragmatic.

Hanniah welcome

Multitakeholder partnerships (MSPs) are neccessary if we are to have the impact that we want to see in the world, and large corporates are part and parcel of this process.

As a social activist, it took me years to realise that you can kill more flies with honey than with vinegar. It took me years to also realise that corporates and goverments are a microscosmo of "PEOPLE". some good, some bad and some indeferent.

But once, we come to the realisation that all there is is "PEOPLE" the rest becomes a lot easier to handle. !st thing to do is:

1. Identify people with whom you share a common vision
2. See if they are in key-decision making positions or if they are influential
3. Get them to be your vision ambassadors (within reason)

Now regarding your questions and statements:

1. What do Social entrepreneurs need from big businesses?

They need a "BIG" brother that shares the vision. They need "Partners" not a donor, boss ror servant relationships. And this is the challenge for many SEs, because they still see themselves in diferent roles and mostly are positioned within the "Donor" camp.

We need to realise that our needs can be met adequatelly if we just think outside the box, and if we move away from the traditional way of seeing ourselves.

Once we acheive that state of being! Our needs then becomes commodities that we can trade with corporates usinng a Win-Win scenarioapproach. (Oh! forgot ... you have to package your need ... as solutions for their needs ... and the solutions that you provide them must be packaged in such a way that it can be measured both in ROI and SROI for their shareholders!!!!!!!!!!!!!!)

The key is to never loose focus of "WHAT YOUR MISSION AND PURPOSE IS!"

1. How can big businesses reach-out to SE's?

Now! This is an interesting question! There are a multitude of possible answers. But they all boil down to:

TREAT SE's as PARTNERS, not as subservient social activists. Treat them with respect and recognise and acknowledge the VALUE that they bring to their organisations!

These are my 2 cents worth!

Laurinda Seabra @ empowerment gateway

Now

Start by analysing all your needs! Financial, brand support, vision endorsement, capacity ... etc!

Once you have identified them, package them as tradable commudities that can be offered as solutions to big businesses!

Now! What are all big businesses looking for?

1. Improved ROI
2. Brand enhancement
3. Reputation enhancement (being seen as doing good)
4. Access to new markets
5. Feedback from stakeholder especially at the BOP (This is the new markets, because at the top of the pyramid saturation is being reached)

Now ... by analysing your VISION ... you need to analyse if you can provide answers and solutions that address the "Big Brother" requirements!

Laurinda

For the past 4 years, we have researched methodogies and processes as enablers of "commodisising" Social Entrepreunship. We have identified that if we are to succeed in meeting our VISION we would require various partners.

1. A financial instituion
2. An ICT partner
3. an Industry partner (per community)
4. A social partner
5. Stakeholder's representatives

What did we do?

We packaged our VISION ... whislt addressing their needs! We researched not only the big business itself, but also their key decision makers and influencers. Then we approached them with requests for Expressions of Interest! (What are they prepared to trade in return for the benefits that we can bring them?)

We now have a financial instituion on board! ... why did we choose that specific institution?

First, we identified that at the helm there were "Social intrepreneurs)

Second, jointly we can make an impact, whislt addressing their shareholders needs! (Something like having your cake and eating it) ... we follow our vision (at the individual level) ... but we also respect their needs.

We are now finalising with an ICT group ....following the same approach!

End of the day ... you need to have data and information so that you identify social intrepreneurs within the big business! (You don't have to sell them your vision because their core has the same vision)

Together we can do miracles and have impact! Alone ... we just another drop in the Ocean!

(Our web site details more about what we are ding and why) www.empowerment-gateway.com) (Yep it has been partially updated)

Take care

Laurinda

That's what we are, the core funding operation in the UK, with a 20+ year track record in business. As far as I know the only social enterprise software developer in town, centainly the only "profit for purpose" one. There's a collective doing IT consultancy whose rates to the voluntary sector are 50% higher than what we've charged to corporations. By our discounted rates for social purpose orgs, they are six times our cost with no trace of a product.

Yet for all this in the last 2 years we have not generated one enquiry from a social business. We had several corporations based on referral. BAA and Manchester Evening News were successful, if small sales.

Within the cooperative movement they have a principle or rule, which is to cooperate with other cooperatives, an idea which social enterprise seems to dispense with.

Has any social enterprise approached another social enterprise as a potential partner I wonder?

Perhaps we fail to do this because we really know little about each others strengths.

Jeff

Jeff

Dear Laurinda, Welcome to the forum and thank you for touching upon some significant points. Your humanizing stance towards businesses is not only plain common sense but allows for non-profits, social enterprise/eurs etc to have the vision that they CAN find ‘the right partner’ for their particular set of principles/vision/needs/challenges. One of the fundamental problems that plagues any partnership is an inherent distrust between the social and the corporate that can be boiled down to pigeonholing of all big businesses as greedy and unscrupulous and all socially geared orgs/individuals as un-pragmatic.

The empowered approach of packaging your needs and abilities as a solution to their needs taken by you is a critical element in when engaging with the corporate sector. For a multi-stakeholder partnership to be successful and sustainable over its duration, the interchange needs to be a two way process, whereby the corporates stand to learn as much from the social enterprises as vice versa, so that ultimately the two evolve a newly interdependent form for whatever the duration of the partnership.

Big businesses (as Hanniah puts it) need to first have a change in mindset that 1) CSR can be a profitable, growth-oriented and sustainable strategy (and not to be relegated as an act of philanthropy or charity for businesses to build social capital), and 2) that the poor in developing and emerging markets are both potential consumers and partners, if only big businesses see them less as victims but more as resilient, value-conscious and innovative members of society.

Without the mindset change of big businesses, it will be an uphill challenge for social entrepreneurs to approach them for collaboration. We need to create greater awareness of social entrepreneurship via education and training and providing best-in-class (and replicable) examples of social innovation projects that were initiated and managed by private-sector enterprises (such as Unilever, SC Johnson & Co, and Danone to name a few), local entrepreneurs and civic and government officials. Because each group has a stake in the project, the parties involved will naturally put in a more conscientious effort to make the project a success. It's a total win-win-win scenario.

We need more than just the Grameen Bank or kiva.org examples to push forward the social entrepreneurship agenda as social entrepreneurship is so much more than just microfinancing. The bigger picture involves big businesses collaborating with the local community and social entrepreneurs, and together coming up with innovative solutions (be it financing, product development, marketing or distribution) to overcome local barriers so that the community as a whole will benefit with social, economic and environmental development.

How can big businesses reach out to front-line social entrepreneurs? Let's start with the UN agencies. Perhaps they can form a link and be the broker between private-sector enterprises and social entrepreneurs and the local communities.

Dear Sandra, You are absolutely right in that it is a win-win situation if the partnership is managed properly and for this ‘brokers’ can be an excellent resource. However do you feel that organisations operating on the sheer scale of the UN can in fact deliver on partnerships like the ones you envisage (local communities, local barriers) effectively and rapidly?

I am also completely in agreement with the point that there is a need for: ‘greater awareness of social entrepreneurship via education and training and providing best-in-class (and replicable) examples of social innovation projects that were initiated and managed by private-sector enterprises (such as Unilever, SC Johnson & Co, and Danone to name a few), local entrepreneurs and civic and government officials’

In addition to changing the ‘mind set’ of businesses, readily available access to such resources (case studies, examples of projects) would assist potential and exiting partnerships in identifying cases of best practice in their field and through replication, modification or indeed creation of new initiatives could lead to further social innovation.

The problem that however remains is how to make all this information accessible to all the parties that could benefit from it (big businesses, social entrepreneurs, civil society and governments) especially in face of the above-mentioned circumstance that social entrepreneurs in particular might be missing from the conventional formal information network including: Education and Training = Conferences, work shops, round tables, conventions etc (unless conventional formal education in universities begins to address these issues in business, management and economic development degrees). Best in-class examples = issue briefs, case studies etc.

Clearly an in addition to creating awareness about social entrepreneurship an innovative approach to this creation sorely is needed.

Hello Everyone!

I joined this forum today and missed lunch – it’s my best decision today so far  - I will get to that in a minute.

I will indeed say a belated wish for a rewarding year and hope some of you are already on the way.

I am indeed impressed by the quality of contributions from everyone most especially this topic because it is one that I have been working on over the last 18 months.

Reading through the contributions, I have had some questions answered (thank you Sandra, Christopher and Laurinda and indeed everyone!) I have also seen the passion of everyone involved venting their views and recapping also the obvious but unaddressed barriers facing social entrepreneurs.

Whilst social entrepreneurs themselves are passionate people full of creative ideas - they are often looked upon as ‘feeding’ off philanthropic measures – completely forgetting that the most active word ‘entrepreneur’ also can mean a BUSINESS inclined man or woman but focused on resolving the social challenges the other sectors in the economy are not addressing or insufficiently managing. This as a business case for social businesses in our global economy of today means social entrepreneurship has come to stay.

For a newcomer, pardon my wordy contribution:

Well then, I guess then it is my turn to respond to Hanniah's question at this time. Her point being: The problem that however remains is how to make all this information accessible to all the parties that could benefit from it (big businesses, social entrepreneurs, civil society and governments).....

I always join discussion forums passively and network when I can, this network has changed my perception - with like minded fellows as yourselves, I doubt if I will remain passive for long.

Back to Hanniah’s concern – permit me to say that as we speak, the content of a quarterly publication is being compiled - to showcase successful case studies, the why, how and benefits of the corporate world engaging with SME and community activities (some reflecting my own chosen niche – the black and minority ethnics)

The publication is coming along side a summit in June which will provide the dissemination of information addressing most of your concerns.

I could do with articles, case studies and your supports. I find out a couple of contributions here were spot on - exactly what needs comprehensive publicity.

Distribution of the publication will include the obvious stakeholders – corporate businesses, SMEs, universities, social business, community and ethnic groups…..or should I mention it simply - everyone?

What I have also learnt along the years is that taking small baby steps – one day at a time – a group at a time addresses a lot of major problems in the society. It takes time and efforts (collective) and the publication and summer summit is mine. Whatever you do, don’t let this topic become another one left where it began – on this website. Let’s build on this. I will be glad to hear from everyone as well. I believe we can take the word out there- you never know who is reading this.

I am glad I made a choice today - joining this forum and meeting you all. Will I miss lunch again? – SURE!

1. S:

Oh by the way, I manage the events at www.thecorporateplaza.com

Dear Tim, Pleasure to have you abroad. I myself joined the forum after extensive trawling around on the internet trying to find a forum that hasn’t fallen into disuse or wasn’t a glorified social networking site pretending to be intellectually oriented. I then discovered socialedge and the passion with which the organisers and the member interact. It is a great platform for brainstorming with like minded people inclined towards seeking solutions to social problems.

Thanks for your detailed thoughts (and for missing your lunch… I feel for you because thanks to this forum I haven’t had lunch for the past two days). Anyway onto more interesting things. I would love a little detail on the actual event and different stake-holders who will be taking part. As per the information you require… The organisation I work for have materials available online focusing on social entrepreneur/ corporate engagement and partnerships. 3 publications that come to mind are:

1. Harnessing potential - why it makes sense for your business to work with social entrepreneurs 2. Social entrepreneurs - vital partners for business 3. July 2007 eBulletin: Social entrepreneurs: how business can harness the potential These will have information and good practice examples that might be useful to you. They are all available to download for free on http://www.iblf.org/activities/Business_Standards/Enterprise.jsp (don’t forget to reference us (IBLF) when using ;) ) . I hope you find them helpful.

On another note this brings me to anther question…. If you go through the website you will see that apart from these there are dozens more publications, toolkits, issue briefs on practical problems like the one we are all discussing to death that could assist a lot of stakeholders. However getting these publications out into the public realm is a real question in my mind. As you say about the publication coming out in June will be distributed to ‘the obvious stakeholders – corporate businesses, SMEs, universities, social business, community and ethnic groups…..or should I mention it simply - everyone?’ I am very curious to know if there is a concrete dissemination strategy that might be used to get it to all these stakeholders?

Interesting read, and all quite sweet and energetic but, in my experience, perhaps a bit misdirected. Carlo pointed to what appears to be the only "growth" sectors in the SE world--public and private "academics" (conferences, websites, training, books, etc) which might suggest that, at best, the framing of an SE sector is academic and, at worst, delusional. Admittedly, in my time, I came across a few corporate types who, individually, would be open to something along the SE line but, uniformly, never any large corporations. SE, if it appealed at all, was merely an adjunct to marketing, and for only as long as that worked (ROI).

Perhaps if SE is to remain the focus of the group supporting this forum, other ways of framing its mission should be explored and other models developed, and perhaps along the lines of how to build SEs into organizations which don't go hat-in-hand to large corporations but rather displace those corporations and their functions in new, community-centric ways. Mike

Dear Mike, welcome to the discussin and thankyou for new dimension you have added in. I think the conversation has been gravitating to your point for a little while now. SE and corporate engagement cannot be a sustainable venture unless both sides can put some sort value on what each brings to the table. The framing of the SE mission, keeping that in mind, must be able to distinctly offer more than a marketing advantage. On a micro-level case studies reveal that mutual advantages have resulted from proper partnering based on skills and needs. On a macro level there would be room for a model. Part of the aim of the discussion was to explore innovative ways of sustaining social enterprise, and to that end I feel that your call to explore new models for SE/corporate engagement and innovative ways to build SE'a into organisations is extremely important. I look forward to hearing other people's opinions on it.

1. s. An informed reframing of the SE mission would need input from the corporate sector. I think that your point might lead to a brand new discussion... what do businesses need from social enterpreneurs.

CROSS SECTOR PARTNERING BETWEEN PANDA SOFTWARE (Spain) AND GOODWILL (INDIA) IN COMMUNITY TECHNOLOGY SERVICES PROJECT MADURAI, INDIA - A CASE STUDY

This is a case study of the community Technology services project being undertaken by Goodwill social work centre, which is adjudged as one of the four winning projects of “Panda IT aid 2006, Panda International, Spain (www.pandasoftware.com). To celebrate its 15th anniversary and in line with its commitment to Corporate social responsibility, Panda Software has launched the international Panda IT Aid grants program. The aim of this programme is to recognize and support the execution of projects that contribute to the secure use of new technologies and promote universal and egalitarian access to the Information Society, especially for disadvantaged sectors of society, with particular emphasis on young children, the disabled and the elderly.

Aims: The award has been given to GOODWILL for creating community Technology centres for children and young women in low and moderate income communities in Madurai, Tamilnadu, South India, which is aimed at empowering children and young women of low and moderate income families with technology skills and usage in a community based setting. GOODWILL has conceived the idea to establish Community Technology Centres in response to concern about the growing gap between children and young adults of high socioeconomic status families and those who do not have due to low socioeconomic backgrounds.

This is a multi-stakeholder partnership involving three actors namely business, nonprofit and government. The business partnership is offered by Panda Software through the award of grants, monitoring and evaluation of the project while the govt partnership is provided by Jan Shikshan Sansthan{Madurai},Ministry of Human resources development, Government of India through accreditation and certification of the digital learning courses, performance management and award of certificates to successful candidates. nonprofit partnership involves GOODWILL’s role in project implementation, performance management, reporting and documentation. You can view our webalbum:http://picasaweb.google.com/chrisdangswc/GOODWILLPANDAITAIDPROJECT2006

The case study presents an overview of the cross-sector partnering between businesses and nonprofits as a prelude to the process of multi-stakeholder partnership among three actors in involved in the Community Technology services project, Corporate Social Responsibility{CSR} of Panda Software International, Spain, Panda IT Aid –A unique CSR programme, the procedure involved in the selecting the winning project under Panda’s CSR programme, GOODWILL as one of the four winners of the Panda IT Aid award, PANDA-GOODWILL Project -An exemplary and innovative Multi-Stakeholder Partnerships, a description of the project being implemented, characteristics of the beneficiaries of the project and the project outputs and impact of the CTC training programmes organised for the beneficiaries. Methods: Both quantitative and qualitative interviews were used in the study. A personal profile questionnaire was developed to collect social and demographic information from all the 252 participants who attended the first batch of CTC training during 2006-2007.A focus interview/group protocol was used to elicit a wide range of opinions and views from a sample representative of sixty young women trainees. Results: Data have revealed a high percentage of children and young women in ‘low income group’ attending the programme, compared with the ‘moderate income group’. Interestingly enough, the project has benefitted trainees (30 percent; N=252)) who were socially included into this programme and digital opportunities were provided to them who are otherwise called as ‘socially excluded community’ (Schedule caste/Scheduled Tribe). The level of performance of a significant majority of trainees (73.80 percent) who attended the programmes was ‘outstanding’, who have secured 75 marks and above out of 100Overall the success rate in the digital learning programme was found to be 89 percent {N=252}.

This is a typical case example of a Community Technology services project being undertaken by a Social entrepreneur in India,which needs more support,encouragement and funds from Big businesses.

The full text of the case study can be obtained upon request.Please contact Dr.J.Christopher Daniel at :chriskan@satyam.net.in

Dear Chris, Thank you for sharing with us this exemplary case for a symbiotic multistakeholder partnership. It is an excellent best practice example of an initiative where all parties bring tangiable skills and expertise to the table. The more such intiatives are sucessful and visible in the public domain the more other sucessful partnerships and newmodels of engagement can be informed and developed. I am sure that Tim will be pleased to recieve this case study!

Hanniah Greetings

I can well relate with Jeff Mowatt's frustration. Having worked in the social sector for a long time and facing similar challenges I assessed the constraint and tried to find out some workable solution. The corporate social disclosure is a new and innovative methodology to generate more participation from the private/business sector in community social well being. While modalities and experiment for such business-social partnerships are evolving we need to focus on visible benefits for the business. Islamic charity or Zakat is a process for ensuring an egalitarian system of wealth sharing that creates opportunities without burden on any one person/persons. The basic concept is on grants that creates opportunities for employment and Small and medium enterprises and simultaneously ensures benefit for the business sector.

The process begins with the business sector as the grant agency and the social sector as the grant managers. It ensures the continuity of the social sector that offers the business sector its expertise in human and community development. The second stage is identifying areas that directly benefits the business sector that provideds the grants e.g. health and education services for its workforce. Health and education infrastructure in turn creates jobs for health service providers and teachers and also ensures well being of the workers resulting in less absentism.

Most significantly the burden of loan is not incurred on any one person/persons and its recovery does not become an impediment for the social sector. In order to make the process more viable the beneficiaries can participate through giving their time for auxillary services in the health clinics and school or agreeing to a minimum fee that gives them a sense of ownership as a stakeholder. The process also generates other opportunities e.g. small stationary shop for school supply and pharmacy that follows with a supplier to provide these items. So a grant creates a chain of options that bridges the gap between the business-social-community group. This synergy anticipates issues of common interest for all the sectors e.g. a well cared for workforce performs better and reduces staff turnover.

The Islamic Charity system can be applied in many formats. And its efficacy is easier to monitor for the business sector sees the results first hand and thus the credibility of the social sector is established. After working through many models I believe that the Islamic Charity system is an effective modality that can connect the front-line social entrepreneurs with the big businesses because it is a participatory method.

Habiba Tasneem Chief Coordinator Institute of Hazrat Mohammad (SAW)

Dear Ahmed,

A very warm welcome to you and the Islamic charity, zakat element to the dialogue. Part of my harping on about new models rests on the discussion threads above but largely lies in the need for cultural contextaulization amoung any initiatives. Islamic economic principles derived from general islamic principlse have an incredible potiential in framing solutions for the Islamic world (and potientially helping inform other models) because of thier organic origins. In this regard the Islamic Charity model is extremely important and organic to a large population of the world.

I wonder if you might have a case study on a working example of such a partnership?

A belated response to Hanniah's thoughtful reply to my post.

In developing the partnership-based tools that constitute our "Hanseatic Microfinance Initiative" we had no idea that the legal and financial structures we refined are in fact structures which are entirely familiar to Muslims as "Takaful" ("Guarantee Society") and "Musharakah" ("Capital Partnership") respectively.

Our view is that the UK LLP (and US LLC, come to that) - and in particular the risk and revenue sharing it enables - are "emerging" simply because "they work".

ie Ethical, may in fact, be Optimal.

Having read widely on the subject, while it is clearly the case that Debt/ "Riba" is not permissible under Islam, I cannot for the life of me see why the "Corporation" is any more acceptable, and indeed there are Sharia'h scholars who deeply disapprove of the limited sharing of risk and reward that is inherent in that enterprise model.

But I digress.

Joni Mitchell sang in "Big Yellow Taxi", that:

"You don't know what you've got 'til it's gone";

and the corollary is that

"You don't know what you haven't got 'til you see it".

That is the measure, IMHO, of the new possibilities of partnership-based structures which arise from the infinite flexibility of the "Open" Corporate UK LLP (and its US LLC cousin) in creating new frameworks for the ethical sharing of risk and reward.

Having spent the past 20 years looking for solutions to our crisis in the world ... we are still very much a "controlled" society. As social entrepreneurs we are searching for solutions ... we are debating various processes ... we are tryimg to create new methodologies ... but are we really acheiving anything?

At the end of the day we are still constrained by "Society", "Markets", "Goverments" and "Organised Religions" ... when all we really need is facing us on a daily basis ... we fail to take cognisance of the fact that there is something bigger than all of us ...

As an engineer, having designed hundreds of machinnes, I am stil amazed about the engineering "The blue prints" that drives the human body, animals, plants, the earth, the universe!

How came has mankid is alowing itself to be destroyed? How come is mankind destroying its habitat? We are striving to acheive GOOD, but howcome is the poverty belt increasing and the middle class decreasing? How come so few individuals and corporations control the lives of millions of human beings?

Where have we all gone wrong?

As SE's we are operating in environments that are not conducive to acheving the full positive impact of our visions ...

We are still operating within a polarity framework. Us and Them! ... Good and Bad! ... etc

We need to stop thinking and talking about and we need to start doing more! ... We need to get back to basics ...

The question is not abot just SEs and Business, or goverments or NGOs ... it is about people! Human beings! Irrespective of where they are!

We need to look for the Good in people and align with people that share the same vision! Once we do that it makes no difference where they are positioed within "Operational" structures! or in which operating structures are they operating out of!

Again GOOD is subjective ...

Wish I had all the answers but I don't ... all I know is that we can not continue on this road to destruction that we are currently on ... otherwise we will need to find a new planet to live on in the not so distant future.

Laurinda Seabra

Hello All,

I hope you are having a great time here? I am.

In order not to distract the flow of the real matters at hand (which i have seen at other discussion groups and I do not appreciate), Laurinda, Hanniah, Sandra would you mind sending your details?

Mine is timi@thecorporateplaza.com#

Many thanks.

Timi

Timi ... good point!

Going back to what I was saying previously ... regarding partnerships with corporates ...

The questions of what does SEs need, is dependant on various factors ... it is not a "One shoe" fis all process. This is the mistake most commonly made, in that it is assumed that what works for one will work for all!

There is a need to study each organisation (SE, NGO, Gov or Corporate) ... situtation/s, goals and objectives independent from other organisations ... and to then map the uniqueness of the organisation.

This needs communication, trust and belief in a common cause!!!!!!!

The challenge is to develop "Trust" ... this does nt happen overnight, it is something that gets build over time ...

So where to start? (The same way that one can eat an elephant ... a bit at a time ... tranlsted = a step at a time"

Regards

Laurinda Seabra laurinda.seabra@mpowerment-gateway.com +27820966568

I am very glad that I can get this site. I do have the same interest as you all in entrepreneurship, SME, and hatching new innovative business ideas. For your information, our country - Indonesia - has been undergoing a chronic economic crisis which bring about the high rate of unemployment, limited job opportunities, dropouts, criminality, etc. I hope you would kindly share your brilliant ideas to cope with such problems. Please contribute to posting them on my blog: www.mcidea.blogspot.com, in order that we all can get affected by your success!

Dear mashuri, thank you for the link to your blog and for appreciating our efforts here! i hope that the participants of this discussion show as much enthusiasm as they have here. Might i also suggest that you link us to your blog?

Hi Ahmad:

I just wanted to pick up on your phrase, "a grant creates a chain of options that bridges the gap between the business-social-community group" - to say that that's really a terrific formulation, and that we could all ask ourselves how our various proposals and activities can create a chain of positive impacts.

Thank you so much for your post here.

Hello again, Hanniah:

and thank you for your kind greeting

this is a wonderful event you're hosting here, and your responsive attention to those of us posting is bringing out the best in us all.

*

You wrote:

*As a (non-practising) Muslim I can also say that the concept of a ‘balance’ is a major theme running through Muslim views on economics and development where a balance necessarily needs to be found between the quest for material wealth and the quest for spiritual salvation and hence between the generous and the pragmatic.*

Ahmad has brought us some specific insights into how that is and can be accomplished; my own sense is that the balance in question is very nicely expressed in a hadith attributed to the Prophet, "Put your trust in God, but first tie your camel" - and perhaps Jesus in the New Testament is getting at something of the same sort, when he says "be ye therefore wise as serpents, and harmless as doves."

For the individual, though, achieving that balance may be a matter first of temperament and then of the gradual accumulation of wisdom, whereas for society as a whole…

I look at our Nobel prizes, our knighthoods and our billionaires, and I think of various "companies" of the past - the Invisible College, from which the Royal Society sprang, the Platonic Academy in Medici Florence, the knights of the Arthurian round table and so on - in which I see a constantly recurring theme of a type of nobility in which the finest minds and most generous hearts join to create the betterment of society.

Social entrepreneurship appears to be a contemporary manifestation of this tendency, but I have to say I wish there was an "membership" that could be bestowed, higher than the Peace Prize, the holders of which would see themselves as forming a company of those who, having achieved at the highest levels, now dedicate themselves to service.

Part of my thinking here derives from my having watched a Lakota (American Indian) ceremonial called the Sun Dance, whose members go through a rigorous ordeal "that the people may live"

dedicating their suffering and endurance to the notion that hereafter they will serve the people rather than their own benefit, fetching food or building shelter first for the elderly and the orphans, and only then for their own families, and last of all for themselves.

Like the potlatch of the Northwest American Indian tribes, a system such as the one I'm envisioning would bring the abilities and resources of the greatest competitors into the (collaborative) service of the tribe.

*

But that's me

I tend to take a cross-cultural / anthropological approach where I can, because it provides such a panoply of ways of looking at the human situation and figuring out what really matters, what moves us most deeply, and what call we might wish to answer...

Thanks again for your generous hosting, and my apologies for now responding sooner

there has been so much here to mull over!

... and my apologies for the weird formatting of that last post - I always forget that for the software that these boards are running on, a double dash turns what went before it into bold face, and indents what follows!

Dear Charles Thankyou for all your input. Incidentally i am very humbled by your knowledge in Islamic economics. I love the hadith reference which fits in very well with the rest of our discussion.

Your emphasis on nobility (or leadership i suppose) is very interesting it you look at it through an anthropological eye. The term for a weathly induvidual in islamic cultures is raees. The roots for the word are leader. Hence from that point of view it is seen as his responisiblity to use the status that resources give him to help lead his community.

Dear Hanniah,

Thank you for organizing this discussion! This is a fascinating topic, at the core of what we are doing at Ashoka. When partnerships are developed where social entrepreneurs find innovative ways of serving their clients/ beneficiaries and generate new types of revenues for their organizations while businesses expand their markets with social impact, then it gets interesting as you have an engine for growth. We are seeing more and more examples from around the world in the Ashoka network whether it is in micro health insurance, low-income housing or solutions to small farmers.

You ask what social entrepreneurs need from big businesses… Beyond the specific assets and skills that they may want to leverage to scale up their own model (R&D, investment capacity, logistics, capacity to operate at scale, etc.), they are looking for partners who are entrepreneurial as well, open to new ways of doing business and humble. They want partners who will integrate positive social change to the business model by design, not by default. The biggest asset that social entrepreneurs have is often the trust from their clients/ beneficiaries and this is what they need to protect above all when engaging with different types of partners like businesses. These partnerships also prompt questions like: what does “equal partnership” mean between entities of significantly different economic size, how do you equally share the new value created among partners, etc.

What we are after is to transform markets so that they can serve low-income populations and other groups previously ignored (www.ashoka.org/fec). How can we create a community of like-minded Changemakers including social entrepreneurs, business leaders, investors and low-income citizens to spread and grow these new approaches? Any thoughts on this forum?

Stephanie

Dear Stephanie

Thank you so much for the great response and throwing out some ideas that the discussion has not touched upon as yet.

I think that a community of like-minded Changemakers is extremely vital to allow social entrepreneurs to be able to benefit from each other’s experiences and thoughts. This would indeed allow for broadening and developing new approaches provided that the community is not a loose one. I feel that for something like that to work there needs to be some sort of formal structure that “compels” them interact and perhaps work together. Your website already has a network developing of the right kind of people. Incidentally I am one of your network of change makers  http://www.changemakers.net/en-us/user/14432/view Do you think that an initiative to start turning this already growing network that you have into a community might be feasible? Perhaps try and host a few regional meetings with willing members to try and understand how the community can be assisted in working together to develop new models?

Another thing that pops to my mind after reading your response ( I think that the part about needing entrepreneurial businesses is quite astute) is that there is also a need for someone to take the initiative to devise a list of such willing/ entrepreneurial businesses as partners for social entrepreneurs. The more the discussion progresses the more it is painfully obvious that information regarding ideal business partners for such SEs is in short supply and very high demand.

.... the little square was supposed to be a smily face...

It seems that one direction that would be useful to take the discussion in is to try and add concrete suggestions on the broad need of ‘trust building’ between the two actors. During the discussion (thank you laurinda, you have really gone above and beyond with your participation) trust has been mentioned as a necessary precursor to improved corporate/ SE engagement. However I would love to hear objective suggestions from participants on how this can be done... meetings? Information about activities?

Any takers?

Hello Hannaih (and Everyone),

I have learnt my lesson to have lunch a few minutes before logging on here - again I was right – I just got my daily dose of deeply engaging professional banter being shared for social business. Over the last couple of days, I have sent this forum's link to a number of colleagues that are observing inertly and waiting for the plunge.

Hanniah, again, I must commend your efforts here. You have indeed initiated a positive vibe with the topic.

To answer your question(s) Hanniah, Stephanie and others concerned, I might have a tool that could begin a chain of positive reaction. I am working (hard) along with my colleagues to produce a handbook/magazine/resource which (as I have earlier informed the forum) will present the opportunities and resources within the social businesses sector available for the corporate networks to tap into. To make it more interesting, unique case studies already existing will be included to stimulate the desired reaction from the corporate sector.

A group of other social entrepreneurs in the UK (and beyond) have committed to the distribution of this handbook/magazine/resource to corporate business networks and other sectors. It is our hope at The Corporate Plaza to supplement this quarterly handbook/magazine/resource by monthly newsletters again presenting miniature versions of the original. The race is on....one day at a time, one step at a time; we hope this will become the Readers Digest for the business-social-community sectors.

So far we are doing well. Our target is June 2008 for the debut which will also come with a summit. Whilst this is and will be a very interesting tool or resource to refer to, support of course will be needed from socially motivated professionals like yourselves and this will be appreciated. You can encourage the efforts by submitting articles, case studies, (Hannaih thanks for your contributions) referring the project for sponsorship (Stephanie – any ideas from Ashoka?) and also ideas on contents layout/presentation will be welcomed.

Do let me know your takes on this. Together, we can get the attention and ultimately, inclusion in the commonwealth.

Timi.

Dear Hanniah, Thanks for your welcome which I read earlier on this grey morning on the Firth of Clydeside shore here on the Isle of Bute,Scotland . Good to meet you again Charles see You on one of those walks acros sthe Island some day would be better. What's new?Yesterday another one of my containers MAEU 6055656DK4310 left the island with top quality educational resources in the first stage of a journey that will take the shipment to the Grenada BoysGovernment School,St george's Grenada;thanks to indispensable help from the Corporate world here in Scotland and South of the Border;details on request. It's tough making contacts that will facilitate our social/entrepreneurial and entrepreneurial effort to generate revenue to sustain what we do. It would be great if contacts/dialogue/affinities would lead to concrete benefits for the constituents we front in this forum.Not another 'academic balloon,Spot on Carlo.Choose a venue Hanniah and I'll be there.Have a great day.Warm best

i love the idea of a regular publication. I will be more than happy to contribute an article or maybe work with you closer on it if you like. I think the best thing might be for us to talk properly. If you send me your details to hanniah.tariq@iblf.org perhaps i can give you a call over the next week?

Hello Hanniah (and ALL)

Thanks for the moderation of this growing and interesting topic.

The trust brand in this topic is indeed important.

The increasing activities of the corporate sector in community matters have indeed grown over the last couple of years. It can be applauded that they have genuine interests in supporting the social business activities in their communities. Social entrepreneurs even though are in need of these supports, are not so confident of the availability of the resources from the corporate sector. Not because there aren’t enough indicators to suggest the resources are available but indeed unsure how to approach these players.

Have we also considered the fact that there are social brokers who are professionals grounded in the areas of successfully ‘pairing’ these two players? They do exist. What I am entirely not sure about is if we have some of them specializing in the business-social-community. Maybe some of us might look into that area to develop? (If you aren’t doing that already.)

So far, enough has been contributed by everyone in this forum that we can now assuredly say its time to take a further but bolder – produce a live event.

Having said that, Hanniah, I am wondering the type of meeting you are suggesting? Will this be a formal meeting where all the players (from the social and corporate sectors) will meet for deliberation? Or to actually have social businesses ‘exhibited’ by their owners for the corporate reps to engage with and ultimately support?

The objectives must be clearly stated.

Then again – the who, when, what and whys must all be covered to have a meaningful gathering. What is the scope we are looking to cover at such an event? Will this be a debut to build on later or one of?

Hanniah, would you like to work with me on this if June is okay? If you rather have it sooner, then its fine, I will attend wherever it is being hosted.

If we can work together on this starting in London, in no time the momentum will begin and the call to move to the other parts say Scotland or wherever the needs are identified (of course everywhere!).

Timi

Dear Timi, Your enthusiasm is quite catchy. I think that a forum is a great idea... it could work great as a focus group to help address the problems we're throwing at each other over the internet as well as a chance meet like minded people. Ofcourse there are a lot of practicalities associated with organising something like this that will take time. Let me look into this and see what kind of interest i can generate before i can promise June. Would your organisation be interested in working on this together? I think that if we can do something like that it could be a very good oppurtunity.

Hi Hanniah,

Thank you for the response. I have sent you a mail as requested and hope to catch up with you sometime soon.

I am interested in us working together and I am quite certain about it.

I hope we have some attention out there????

Hanniah:

I have enjoyed reading through this conversation, and wanted to share our unique hybrid SE model that has a strong "public-private partnership" component. As some of the folks involved with this conversation thread have seen on another post a few months ago, Impact Makers was formed in 2006 and is a innovative new social enterprise model based on a "patnership" between a nonprofit "service delivery" partner and a social venture (Impact Makers) that raises funds for the public sector not through fundraising, but through free-market competition.

Specifically, Impact Makers is an Information Technology and Management consulting firm, focusing in healthcare. We are the nation’s first “competitive social venture” – the critical difference between Impact Makers and our competitors is that all of our profits, and significant consulting services, go directly to our charitable community partners. Our first partner is Safe Harbor, a local domestic violence program that also runs a battered women’s shelter.

Impact Makers is profit-driven, competes in the free-market, and yet by its corporate charter is designed to transform economic value into social value for our community rather than shareholders. Impact Makers is a founding B-Corporation, and is truly innovative and unique in that it: - Provides professional services at market prices - Competes with other firms to win business - Pays market salaries to its employees - Has a volunteer Board of Directors and books open to the public (structured like a non-profit) - Contributes strategic consulting, and all profits, to charitable community organizations

With that overview, we have a very unique partnership with our nonprofit partners. Impact Makers raises funds through free market competition, not fundraising. Our charitable partners can focus on their core competency of service delivery, and less of their energy on fundraising - our partners receive a recurring, sustainable income (up to 30% of their budget). Impact Makers provides strategic consulting services, to help our nonprofit partners focus on continuous improvement of services. The nonprofit's board helps us with business development through opening their "rolodexes" for us, and also the organization sends "thank you" letters to our clients to thank them for hiring us and "helping Impact Makers help us" - this creates significant brand loyalty from our clients as well.

You can check out our site at: www.impactmakers.org, including lots of News stories in the media and even a 5-minute interview video that appeared on CNN Headline news in the Richmond market.

• Michael

Dear Micheal,

Thank you for adding another concrete new model of engagement. The case studies are very interesting for this discussion because they steer it away from theory and move it into practical application. Your case specifically is important to this discussion as a few threads ago we concluded the tangible services (as opposed to soft benefits like reputation enhancement) from the non-profit are key to better partnerships and through your contribution you have added two. Thanks for that.

I would love to see more cases like this. . . .

Hanniah, Reading your website over the weekend I found this statement from Prince Charles, so I sent one.

Am I mistaken to think that this was solicited?

Jeff

Dear Jeff,

i am a little confused by your post ... can you point me to the statement you are refering to ?

hanniah

I agree with Sandra Chiang that we need more examples than Grameen Bank or kiva.org to push forward the social entrepreneurship agenda.

As for the question on how big business can reach out to social businesses:

Big business is made up of people, and people run the big business. If the people who run the organizations are passionate about social change, then they can make it happen.

As a person who worked with big business as a distribution partner, in this case Pepsi-Cola, I realized people who work in big businesses are accountable to the board of directors and upper management. Most people working in big business are afriad of losing their jobs, so they do not rock the boat. They are actually encouraged not to rock to boat. I have seen people demoted or fired for being too innovative.

The person presenting the match-making opportunity of a social idea (non-profit or social business) must sell their idea to the board of directors or upper management. The upper managment will think of "maximizing their goodwill" from the social business venture. Goodwill means money and badwill equals lost profits.

Big businesses are followers for social change. If we see a lot of small companies doing good, big business will follow and do good also. That is why I suport small businesses for social change because it is easier turning a small boat around than a big ship.

Currently, I am setting up North America's first social stock exchange, called the Green Stock Exchange (http://greensx.com), which will finance and trade shares publicly in social businesses, just like NASDAQ and AIM London Stock Exchange. It is a eBAY.com like system for trading shares in social businesses, with a triple bottom line (economic + social + environmental). It will be ready about summer 2008. I have not made any press releases yet, so you are the first ones to know about it. I am defining a "social business" as a profit making business that also benefits society.

Since all the listed companies on the exchange are pre-screened, evaluated, and audited according to social and sustainable guidelines set by the exchange, it will make it much easier for green investors to find and support social businesses. The GREENSX provides opportunities for small green Issuers to access public equity capital efficiently, while providing early stage investors, angel investors, and venture capitalists with greater liquidity.

We want to use the Green Stock Exchange to give social businesses more visibility, to help them grow, to provide them support and to help them expand. That is why I believe if we see a lot of small companies doing good, big business will follow and do good also.

Dear David, thank you for restarting the conversation that seems to have slowed down considerably on such an inspiring note. I personally feel quite honoured to be among the first to hear about it. GREENSX is exactly the kind of innovative engagement model I would love to hear more about. I notice that you mention that all the listed companies are pre-screened, evaluated, and audited according to social and sustainable guidelines set by the exchange. I am very curious about (among other things but if i start then there will be a deluge of questions so ill stick to the more important ones in my mind) the guidelines and what tools, instruments etc were drawn upon to develop them. Additionally how are the companies initially identified? I don’t mean to sound aggravatingly nosy but as you mention there has been no press release etc so I cant satisfy my curiosity about the exchange else where!

Hanniah, I just wanted to thank you for the inspiration you've provided through your continuing monitoring and nurturing of this conversation, which has been as a result one of the very richest I can recall here on the Edge!

And I too am very curious, David! Please tell us more...

you are much too kind considering that it has been people like yourself who have kept the conversation alive for about a month now !!!

thankyou for all your input, it has been a great experience for me.

Hello Hanniah,

I think they should update their forum software. This forum software is horrible. There is no way of editing typos and keeping track of your posts.

As for our lising guidelines, it will be part of our Green Business Certified program at:

http://greensx.com/info/listing_social_guidelines.php

The basis of the guidelines are as follows:

Whenever possible, the primary basis for Green Business Certified Program's guidelines/rating criteria is international law and agreements, such as the Universal Declaration of Human Rights or the ILO Conventions. The rating criteria are also built upon codes, standards or principles established by international organizations or governments, including the OECD Guidelines for Multinational Enterprises and the United Nations Global Compact. In some cases, industry, multi-stakeholder, or voluntary sector initiatives inform the screening criteria. Such examples include the International Standards Organization 14001 environmental management system standard, the Global Reporting Initiative, the chemical industry’s Responsible Care Program, and Amnesty International’s Human Rights Principles For Companies. In Green Stock Exchange (GREENSX)’s view, these types of initiatives provide authoritative standards against which business may reasonably be held accountable. In the absence of such codes, standards or principles, the basis for evaluation is best practices, either at the industry level (if this is the most meaningful point of comparison) or at level of best corporate practices in the U.S. and Canada.

The fun part is that the Green Stock Exchange will be connected to our green social network, this is to drive more business for listed companies.

The Green Stock Exchange is part of our larger online platform for social change, called the "E=MC² Green Community Platform", which brings together millions of investors, issuers, companies, non-profit organizations and people interested in small eco-friendly, socially responsible and sustainable social businesses. The platform taps into the creative and collaborative spirit of humanity to change the world for the better.

We generate multiple streams of revenue from millions of members and organizations, which actively participate in the investment, creation, sales, manufacturing, promotion and distribution of more earth friendly and more humanity friendly products. Profits come from: advertising, trading of securities, online and offline sales of green products, green business certifications, member subscriptions, and payment processing.

We also have a reward program thst might be of interest to you, called RewardBunny.com. RewardBunny.com program uses Web 3.0 to seamless integrate online experiences with offline experiences. By taking a picture of a special type of Mobile 2-Dimensinal Barcode on our product labels via a cell phone,consumers can immediately receive reward points, receive product information and coupons, send in their opinions and ideas, and enter contests online, while in-store ("example: while shopping in a supermarket") via their cell phone.

Our business model is at http://greensx.com/info/model.php

Hello Everyone,

I have missed a bit of the conversation as I have been away.

David that is incredible - do share some more. I am keen to learn about your social forex. I can only agree more that big companies will follow soon if they can only see some of these processes work out there effectively.

Hanniah - I hope you are still hosting the forum? It will be sad to see you leave the scene at this time - what do we have to do to keep you? You are doing a great job here :-)

I hope to be in touch with you soon.

Do have a great day ahead everyone.

Timi

Dear David

Any organisation to survive needs triads of various things - example - human capital, finance and infrastructure; focus on social, economic and environment; focus on individual, community, country ... and on and on (visit our website www.empowerment-gateway.com) and look at our triads of sustainability) ... those are just a starting point and form part of the layers that are part of foundation.

We are now facing our next challenge as we implement our model and the start-up of the replication process. We now need to raise $20M in the next 3 years. We have known about this need for quite a while ... but the challenge has been the identification of the appropriate economic forums that we would be willing to approach ... and this is proving to be more of a challenge than we expected.

In the interium we are progressing as we have for the past 4 years ... self funded.

You see. We are not looking for a grant or a donation ... instead we are looking for a soft loan ... and now the challenge:

• We want to partner with (investors)that will invest a percentage of their ROI, especialy profits earned as a result of a partnership with Empowerment Gateway in other "for benefit" to all stakeholders type projects.

So, initiatives like yours are needed worldwide, in every country ... in South Africa there's is SA Social Exchange (a by product of the founder of Greater Good SA) ... but they are still new ... in Germany and UK ... there's work being done on another Social Exchange ... Investors and even some market speculators are getting tired of getting just ROI and profits at any cost ... they want to know that they investment will also bring social benefits. So they are looking for SROI as well. But the pressure is still not enough to get enough results out of standard stock exchanges.

Your definition of a Social Business fits in with the concept and reasoning beyond the creation of the "Hybrid organisation" label. ... the doing well ... whislt doing good framework.

There is no doubt that we are in a morphing process as "human beings" ... my question is:

Will there be enough of us around to really acheive the change that we want to see happening?

Will large multinationals and the other team players within the ICC 500/600 "ALLOW" the development of SE to really take form and shape ... and provide the much needed social change that the world is cryong for? or will they infiltrate and derail some of the projects that can really contribute to poverty alleviation, fair trade ...etc?

A vast majority of those multi nationals are the ones that through their attitude to "Profits" at any cost for a "minority of shareholders" assisted in the creation of situations that led to Global Worming, devastation and changes to balanced Eco-systems.

Those same organisations pay lip service to REAL Social benefitiation ... instead it is all about highest ROI for shareholders. It is still dog eat dog, price collusions, market manipulation and mass brainwashing of the masses. "The Cannon fodder of the business world" ... and when those individuals are no longer needed they are spweed out to die.(I.e. retrenched, unfaily dismissed)

Now ... you are starting to see the challenges that has faced us for decades. When I was in my late 20's early 30's I realised what I was fighting as a social entrepreneur ... I hibernated for a while ...

So back to the challenge ...

Yes! It will be projects such as yours that will provide the access to capital and finance to Hybrid Social Organisations, it will be organisations led by social visionaries and compassionate individuals, social intrepreneurs living in fear inside organisations that will be the leaders for change.

Most people are inherently good and want to see good happening to all.

Like you, we stoped looking at organisations and institutions ... we look at the people in them.

Keep up the vision ... partner with other think alike organisations ...

Take care

Laurinda

Hi Laurida,

I have trouble accessing your site at: www.empowerment-gateway.com. I also see that you tested our green social network in the beta stage.

Africa is not a continent known for its appetite for financial risks, so the obstacles for setting up the SA Social Exchange or a social business is much harder.

There is a problem with public perception with Africa. Can you name a successful business brand from Africa, so raising your $20 million is a challenge?

I suggest you partner with a larger company to develop your idea. I think it is too difficult to do it alone in Africa.

Our idea is to set up a successful social stock exchange in North America via the Green Stock Exchange (http://greensx.com) and then franchise it to other places, since we have a great deal of experience in franchising.

Thanks for your comments.

Apologies for you not being able to access our site. We were in the process of updating the site when as a result of unscheduled power cuts (because of Eskom incompetence) we lost the link to our servers in the US and info got corrupted, and to really upset the applecart when power was restored by our local municipality, our local servers got hit by a massive power surge that blew everything locally. So we got a double blow in one day. At least our e-mail servers are back-up.

Regarding Africa, I ear you.

It is unfortunate that there is this view of Africa as still a basket case, and I guess that the mess in Zimbwabwe is not helping and neither is the stance taken by the South African goverment on the Zimbwabwen issue.

You ask if I can name a successful brand from Africa ... from South Africa, yes I can, there are a few:

1. Sasol (petroleum)(listed also in NYSE) 2. Dimension Data (ICT)

Regarding partnering with a large org is the route that we are taking.

But we are looking for international investors as we would like to see the EGG model replicated in more than one country and not just South Africa or the rest of Africa.

The funds that we require (most of it anyway) is to be applied to the development of an IMS I, II and III ICT platforms, and thanks to the Internet it can be housed in any country that has a strong ICT sector.

We believe that Africa and specially South Africa is the perfect environment to test our model and processes mainly because it has such a rich and varied multi-cultutural society, beliefs and systems. We know that if it works here it will work anywhere else in the world, because few countries can offer the variety and challenges that South Africa offers.

I love your business model of your "Social Stock Exchange" ... and wish you all the success with it, it is a great project.

Your concept of franching the business model is also great, and one that we also plan on using with our own model.

Take care

Laurinda Seabra

I have been working on cultural social enterprise in various roles.

Cultural social enterprise opens up markets for creative people who can generate cultural product ( performing arts, crafts, visual arts and set up online catalogues or shorlty, work with the first open access cultural social enterprise online community which I am setting up.

For readers who wish to see some examples of what we are doing, please write to kalwant.ajimal@btinternet.com

I also wish to generate debate on this subject on Social Edge. Are there any takers?

Kalwant Ajimal

upcoming conference on cultural social issues at the sears law building irvine. Agenda provided by steven sears and professional staff.

I am a graduate student conducting thesis research and have recently read a lot of articles in the field discussing how social entrepreneurship has emerged in light of the persistence of the world's greatest social problems. While I agree with that statement, I am more hesitant to agree with the many articles that have placed the blame on the failure of the traditional nonprofit sector to affectively address these problems. I would challenge that assumption by saying the reason for the intractability of the world's social problems is more a product of an economic and business system that does not value social welfare. Under this view, it becomes absolutely essential for business to be a part of the solution or no amount of international aid and programming, no matter how innovative, will be able to overcome the negative effects of profit-maximizing, social welfare-minimizing corporations. What are some other thoughts on this? Is the root problem the inefficiency of the existing nonprofit sector or is it a system of business that contributes and perpetuates social and environmental violations in the name of profits? I assume it is a combination of both but I would like to hear more from those in the field about how to change traditional business, not just traditional nonprofits.

Thanks!