We are honored to have had each of your participation in this Social Edge inaugural event. A very special thank you to our Hosts, Jeff Skoll and Sally Osberg, and to the powerful founding members of Social Edge. This week, hundreds of high-quality messages have been posted about many topics. We've learned what attracts members to Social Edge, what will keep us coming back and what could discourage us from doing so. We've explored many ways to measure the success of this online community, and we've already heard of powerful new organizations and special new connections between Social Edge members!

This officially marks the closing of this event, but you are welcome to post any closing remarks over the weekend before we freeze this forum on Monday. Over the next couple of weeks we'll be moving some of the messages from this event into the discussion threads that already exist in the main forums. Part of what we've learned as a community about navigation and content management is that it needs to be clear and simple. From tactical moves like these to longer-term design and measurement, your suggestions will influence the shape of the site.

As we go forward, we welcome all of your ideas, issues, learnings, discussions and online ways of connecting. This is your community, and my promise to you is that we will listen to you. Please continue visiting Social Edge, your online community that already reflects the vibrancy of the social sector! We invite you to join us for our next online event during the week of July 14th titled "Bridging the Cultural Gap: nonprofits and business." I look forward to learning and growing with each of you.

"Never doubt that a small group of people can change the world. Indeed, it is the only thing that ever has." --Margaret Mead

K.L.SRIVASTAVA - Jun 28, 2003 6:59 am (#1 Total: 5)
Researcher and Consultant,Hyderabad,INDIA


Let me take this opportunity to thank social edge team and fellow participants for the interactions in this forum.

Let us work together as a team for building a strong and productive social edge' community!

sally osberg - Jun 28, 2003 8:52 am (#2 Total: 5)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Who knew? We hoped, we worked hard, and we kept Jeff's vision for a truly empowered, self-organizing and authentic community at the center of all our efforts--but we still worried! What if we threw this party and no one came? what if everyone who did thought it was a dumb idea?

But here we are, just a few weeks into launch and at the end of our first on-line event, feeling almost giddy with excitement over having learned so much. You've told us what's working well, extended virtual hands of greeting to hundreds of new colleagues, and reminded us of what will make Social Edge matter as this community evolves: trust, relevant content, thoughtful organization, meaningful interactions and real outcomes.

Thanks for taking this leap of faith with Social Edge. Thanks to my remarkable colleagues Keely and Jeff for the inspiration of their commitment and for their matchless integrity. And for those of you who've been part of the Alice thread--thanks most of all for being one of those special people who can believe six impossible things before breakfast!

Sally

Jeff Skoll - Jun 28, 2003 1:30 pm (#3 Total: 5)
Founder of Skoll Foundation


Thanks to everyone for this most interesting week.

Special thanks to Keely for being the little engine that could...

We will all be part of the community ongoing, so we look forward to continuing these discussions!

Steve Rudolph - Jun 29, 2003 9:46 pm (#4 Total: 5)
Director, Jiva


Well the giddy feeling was infectious! It's been a long time since I've found such a compelling reason to keep logging into a site...again and again.

My hats off to ...Jeff for making SocialEdge a reality. ...Keely for her incessant support and attentiveness to users' suggestions. ...Sally for the spawning of the renegade "Alice" forum ...Lisa for her insightful comments and personal touch ...and the others from the Skoll Foundation and the SE community who made it a great week to be online.

Now the challenge is not to let the momentum die. But I'm sure you'll continue to find ways to make the site inviting and ever fresh. I look forward to participating in the discussions regularly, and to the special events as well.

All the Best, Steve

David Bornstein - Jun 30, 2003 10:32 am (#5 Total: 5)


Congratulations on a terrific launch! What a great response! I'm looking forward to participating in more discussions and events.

Very best wishes, David

As we venture into building this community, we are asking ourselves a very important question:
How will we know we are successful?

Measuring success in this community (or in the sector as a whole) is an interesting discussion and certainly one worth some debate. First, I thought it would be worth it to remind everyone of Social Edge's vision, mission and goals.

Social Edge Vision: To become a connected community fueling advancement and empowerment of the social sector. Social Edge Mission: Social Edge connects the community to provoke dialogue that inspires systemic change in the social sector. Social Edge Goals: 1) Connect social entrepreneurs, their partners and allies to discuss cutting edge issues shaping the field. 2) Foster frank dialogue, mutual respect and a sense of community among all in the social sector. 3) Promote learning from the best, promising and disastrous practices.

Some believe that finding metrics to represent these is a challenge, but I believe we have seen some excellent examples already during this beta phase. We are looking at qualitative and quantitative measurements for success.

What are some of the metrics & criteria you would use to determine if Social Edge is successful in 1, 5 and 15 years? What should we use as indicators of a healthy community with a powerful impact on the world?

What examples of furthering our mission have you seen already (ideas disseminated, relationships built, action taken)?

Anne Perlman - Jun 24, 2003 10:26 am (#1 Total: 17)


Keely, an example of the "relationships built" furthering of the mission that you ask about struck me in Simon Healy's message as part of this event. I've pasted that part of his message below as a color-rich sample of what you're asking. Thanks to Simon for this!

Anne ------------

In the case of Social Edge here's something that occurred last week.................

I posted a small hello in 'Are you a social entrepreneur discussion.' Michael Chertok who runs an ICT centre (www.digitaldividedata.com) in Cambodia responded and emailed me to see if we could do some work together. I responded that we could and were having a phone call later this week to discuss things. Whilst this was happening I noticed some people in Michael's organisation were also attending the Global Knowledge Partnership's INFOSOC conference in Malaysia this week as a sponsored best practice ICT and we also have one of our project leaders (Dale) there as a sponsored presenter. I told to Dale to keep an eye out for Gordon (Michael's team member) because Michael had mentioned this to me. However Dale had already met Gordon, they have become mates and started discussing working together. This is whilst Michael and I are working out how we can work together to create more work at his centre. = Beautiful!

Social Edge was the catalyst for making what I hope to be a long term relationship happen between OrphanIT and DigitalDivideData >> Outcome = Job creation, poverty alleviation for many youths at Michael's centre in Cambodia.

So Social Edge has probably contributed to solving poverty in the long term for a small group of people in Cambodia

Sorry that doesnt help with your transaction issue but Social Edge is certainly providing social transactions and a wealth of other benefits that will keep people coming back if more and more relationships like this can be successfully created around the world

Bravo to all of you and long life to Social Edge. --------

K.L.SRIVASTAVA - Jun 24, 2003 9:35 pm (#2 Total: 17)
Researcher and Consultant,Hyderabad,INDIA


I envision that Social Edge will evolve as a global network of interacting regional hubs who will have regionally-relevant as well as global agendas. The issues like education, health, and environment will form the dominant streams of opportunities for social entrepreneurship, and hence, the discussions are likely to be structured along those themes. I can think of following measures of success: (a) satisfaction level of participants about what they have gained in terms of ideas and contacts for their personal missions and persuits. (b) satisfaction level of participants about opportunities they got for contributing their perspective and knowledge. (c)Scoring on relevance of discussions in relation to contemporary issues. (d) Feedback about Social enterprises formed/developed due to participation in this forum.

Thanks

Jeb Brugmann - Jun 25, 2003 8:36 am (#3 Total: 17)
Globalegacy


Greetings All! Regarding metrics for SocialEdge, perhaps we could add a metric on the service's methodological contributions to the state of practice in the social enterprise sector. One area where the sector needs to continue to develop is, in fact, with regard to the metrics used to evaluate the sector's impacts.

Globalegacy wants to avoid the erroneous assumption that building a successful social enterprise, with a solid triple bottom line, will necessarily have any substantial positive impact on the fundamental (generally negative) economic relationship between a low-wealth community and its broader, more affluent metropolitan economy. That relationship is generally characterized by leakage of money/wealth/human, social and natural capital from the low-wealth community to the affluent market. We are presently working to develop a metrics framework that places greater emphasis on tracking changes in this fundamental economic relationship, and its patterned negative flows. The question we face is, how can social enterprise be used to turn those flows in favor of the low-wealth community?

With the right metrics we can design social enterprises that are able, through their business processes, to transform patterned, negative relationships that are reinforced by various institutional arrangements. We know that this will require:

--a user-friendly methodology for modeling the economic fundamentals of a low-wealth community and its money/capital flow relationship with the metropolitan/regional market (currently being developed in partnership with New Economics Foundation and Monitor consulting group);

--use of this economic analysis in designing individual social enterprises AND THEIR INDIVIDUAL FIRM-LEVEL METRICS, so that the enterprise can change the institutional foundations of patterned negative relationships;

--employing a density strategy for enterprise development, so that the partner is a low-wealth community, working to transform its economy, not just the entrepreneur/individual enterprise. (Towards this end, we make a long-term commitment to establish a local enterprise cluster of, say, 10-20 firms.

Overall, I think it would be a great contribution if SocialEdge could facilitate sharing of practice in this area so that we can shift from claiming success on the basis of individual (and often geographically isolated) enterprises to evaluating success on the basis of total social enterprise cluster or sector impacts on the fundamental economic patterns confronting a low wealth community.

I very much look forward to this exchange!

Jeb

Steve Rudolph - Jun 25, 2003 8:52 am (#4 Total: 17)
Director, Jiva


Hi Keely,

I am most of all inspired to see you thinking for the future--15 years. That says a lot about your commitment and vision. Most folks can't see past lunch ;)

I like KL Srivastava's points very much. I'd like to suggest a few more:

- life span of users. Do they come for two weeks and disappear, or do they stay involved for 15 years?

- its internal priority at Skoll. How central a role does it play in your scheme of things as time passes?

- recall to use Social Edge. When something critical happens, do you reach for "The Edge"? (when I search, I "Google", when I buy, I "eBay", When I hit a social entrepreneurial road block...).

- Specifically, how much do people reach their goals and impact their communities more effectively as a result of interactions on SocialEdge?

- How many "Trackback" links are made to your site/postings. In the Weblog world, there is a "trackback" feature that enables people to link postings from your site to theirs, and your site can display how many links have been made, and where to. It is something that will likely take time to become popular, but in a few years, it might be common.

- If people check SocialEdge as much as (or more than) their email

- If people ever have a dream about SocialEdge (then you KNOW you're there)

sally osberg - Jun 25, 2003 10:10 am (#5 Total: 17)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Hi Steve,

Does it count if the Skoll team is dreaming Social Edge? If so, we're there!

I think it important to respond to your question regarding how central Social Edge is and will continue to be to the Foundation: you should know that as recently as a week ago, Jeff identified Social Edge as the Skoll initiative with the greatest potential to make the greatest impact.

It's a keeper, and we're here for the long pull. But it's people like you who will really nourish the site as you use it, draw inspiration from it, offer ideas and experiences--in other words, continue doing what you're already doing.

Many thanks.

Sally

Steve Rudolph - Jun 25, 2003 11:45 am (#6 Total: 17)
Director, Jiva


Why yes it sure does count if the Skoll folks are dreaming about it! When something grabs you so deeply, and you are so commited to it, it becomes infectious...and others will start dreaming about it along with you.

It seems like you guys are exhibiting Class A signs of "social intrapreneurship" over there :)

I'm wondering if that is a rare thing in foundations. (Social)entrpreneurs thrive on the excitement of innovation, uncertainty, chaos, and achieving their mission. Do foundations typically cultivate a spirit of entrepreneurship/intrapreneurship among their staff members? It seems that such practices would have the potential to stimulate innovation at the foundation level, and also build bridges between them and social entrepreneurs. Maybe social entrepreneurs could even provide a few tips to the funders!

And perhaps things wouldn't have to be viewed as "top down" all the time. We could see ourselves all as equals (the donors, the foundations, the NPOs, the communities we work with), each having a different, but critical role to play in the process of social "upliftment".

Geoffb - Jun 25, 2003 12:00 pm (#7 Total: 17)
Blind Babies Foundation


It is interesting to me that all of the respondents have hit on the various different types of measurements: 1) Short term quantitative 2) Short term qualitative 3) Long term goal measuring

Your measurements should relate to your goals. They should measure how far you move in relation to each goal. Steve Rudolph makes an excellent suggestion of measuring loyalty quantitatively over time. K.L.Srivatava has some valid suggestions for satisfaction surveys which may help refine and answer questions that could arise from Steve's metrics (if for example people were not active in the community you would want to know why and question their satisfaction with the site). Ann Perlman points out the tremendous value of the qualitative perspective that gives value to this as a means to the end of the ultimate goal of improving our society. Jeb Brugmann puts it in global perspective - any metrics must be analyzed by target segments. If this community is active only in developed countries it fails.

For thsi excercise I would suggest looking to short term goals and then pose the question of what measurements will tell us that we are moving in the right direction. The goals you listed are below with subpoints of what your interim steps and measures might be: 1) Connect social entrepreneurs, their partners and allies to discuss cutting edge issues shaping the field. a) Define the target market and focus recruitment (get peopel to show up and sign up). Set a goal of so many in year one b) Track issues discussed and categorize them - ask a committee to give a qualitative assessment on the "cutting edge" quality of each discussion. 2) Foster frank dialogue, mutual respect and a sense of community among all in the social sector. a) Metrics for community are loyalty, engagement/participation, individual self-assessments (I would suggest standard online surveys of a random sample early and often) 3) Promote learning from the best, promising and disastrous practices. a) Cultivate archives of best and worst practices - measure postings and access to postings. b) Survey users on helpfulness.

Remember, metrics tell you things about what and how you are doing. They are only helpful if you are prepared to change in reaction to what they tell you. If not enough people are signing up or are engaged then we must be prepared to do things differently.

By the way, this is my first posting but I am so enamoured of this idea I feel very at home in this community.

Yours, Geoff Benjamin

Jeff Skoll - Jun 25, 2003 2:25 pm (#8 Total: 17)
Founder of Skoll Foundation


Hi Jeb -

Your post is very interesting regarding social enterprise and its relationship to poor/rich communities. I have a couple of questions:

1) What is a triple bottom line social enterprise? Does that mean a company that is successful on social, economic and environmental levels?

2) It sounds like you are saying that typical firms will tend to make the affluent parts of a community more affluent and poorer parts of a community more poor, is that correct? (I'm trying to understand your thought that where you say that the relationship is "generally negative").

Thanks.

petert - Jun 25, 2003 3:33 pm (#9 Total: 17)
Peter Tavernise


Some of those posting have mentioned that they would like to see best/worst practices or solutions archived on Social Edge.

The folks from http://www.knowledgeinthepublicinterest.com have mentioned that their nascent web site may be able to back-end code the data such that it can be more easily searched. Perhaps such technology could be employed by SocialEdge? I haven't the technical details, but I'm sure you could contact K-Public to learn more.

This leads us down the path of discussing knowledge management for the NPO sector--something that needs its own thread.

Best,
Peter

sally osberg - Jun 25, 2003 4:57 pm (#10 Total: 17)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Hi Peter,

Good point: you can start a new thread by using the add a discussion element. Of course, you can start it here in "Events" or use "Soapbox" or one of the other sections.

Sally

london calling - Jun 25, 2003 5:05 pm (#11 Total: 17)


Hi Peter,
    There's actually a discusion on best/worst practices already. You can view the forum here:

http://www2.socialedge.org/?14@120.KontanEAaHO.28542@.ee80956

Currently Social Edge also has a search section, but we always welcome advice on making it easier to use. Thanks for the link, I'll see what they have...

Anne Perlman - Jun 26, 2003 2:31 pm (#12 Total: 17)


Geoff,

Thank you for such thorough, valuable suggestions for measurement that relate to the Social Edge goals. You'll see many of your suggestions implemented over time. Please keep on posting, and know that you are at home in the Social Edge Community!

Anne

Keely Stevenson - Jun 26, 2003 2:49 pm (#13 Total: 17)
Royal Bafokeng Economic Board


Peter, thanks for the site- Knowledge/Content management is an important part of any site, and we are working hard to make this a priority on Social Edge. This is a good opportunity to introduce our search tool:
http://www2.socialedge.org/?searchResults@859.VVcLaaSLRN7.190@.ee6b280

We have put a lot of time into building this search tool and would love anyone's feedback on how to make it more useful!

On a side note, we do have a best, promising and disastrous practices forum here at Social Edge moderated by Karen Nemsick who has done a fantastic job thus far.

Keely Stevenson - Jun 26, 2003 3:32 pm (#14 Total: 17)
Royal Bafokeng Economic Board


Hi Geoff,
Excellent post! So glad you feel right at home because you should. This is your community & you obviously understand the mission so well! Great advice on the metrics- you will be happy to know that we are working hard already to implement many of K.L., Jeb, Steve and your valuable suggestions. Keep them coming! My sincere promise to all of you is that WE WILL LISTEN.

I wanted to chime in with Anne's message about the value of qualitative metrics by sharing with everyone an example of successful existing jewels in the Social Edge community.

As many of you know (K.L. especially), our Charter partner Ashoka/Changemakers co-sponsored a Water Forum on Social Edge to aggregate global knowledge and experiences managing water to help communities become more effective stewards of water resources. Both Quality and Quantity were extremely impressive in the dialogue, but what I am most impressed and proud of is the impact-- these global relationships were built and strengthened (the gift!), important knowledge was disseminated (innovative water solutions framework created) and they are in the works of creating a Water Action Guide where these social entrepreneurs can demonstrate some of these community learnings in the field. That is the true power of a learning community! Those are the types of examples that I feel will make Social Edge a success~~~ exceptional community members like each of you who believe in making a positive impact on the world.

Link to Archived Water Forum:
http://www2.socialedge.org/?14@42.7ocQaMOsa0A.33518@.1ad42e84

jimfruchterman - Jun 27, 2003 10:24 am (#15 Total: 17)
Benetech


One of the great things about internet-based projects is that some metrics simply fall out: you have to work hard to not look at the logs and see what's happening. I really enjoy looking at our log data every couple of weeks and seeing activity levels, the countries people are coming from and the like. One of the problems with our field is metric mania: we spend a lot of time debating metrics and methodologies to the point where people are almost embarrassed to be straightforward about simple metrics. I think we should always capture the easy data (trends in number of users, etc.) and then make a cost/benefit decision about some of the fancier data we could capture.

revolving - Jun 27, 2003 10:36 am (#16 Total: 17)
Ecotrust Canada


Greetings all, it's quite a privilege to be able to get a window on some very good thinking about these vital issues. I am particularly intrigued by the notion of a "density strategy for enterprise development" as described by Jeb Brugmann.In the resource-dependent communities where I work (in coastal British Columbia), the economy has been narrowly built around large, extractive resource companies (forestry, fishing, mining, etc), and declines in any one sector can have rapid and dramatic negative consequences for communities.

It seems to me that we can draw lessons from nature, whose resilience lies in its diversity. Conservationists attempt to protect biodiversity in order to maintain conditions for ecosystem health and vitality. Surely, an economy is no different: reliance on a single "species" of economic activity imperils the ECO-system. Conversely, economic diversity offers the prospect that - even if one or two enterprises fail - the community can absorb those failures, as long as enough other enterprises (species) succeed and/or adapt. If this sounds simplistic, I apologize - certainly, it seems too complex a notion for many politicians (and industrialists)! If you accept that there is validity in this notion of multi-enterprise development, then it seems to me that Jeb's idea about a density strategy takes on special significance. And then, how do you connect those dense clusters to each other? Especially in isolated rural communities with little access to the services that larger communities take for granted, simple networking of best practices and of innovation becomes a huge hurdle.

As for the link between the rural (producers) and urban (consumers), this is a fundamental idea that deserves much greater attention. Jane Jacobs wrote in The Nature of Economies of building "reliably prosperous communities" and one of the underpinnings that she thinks is essential is to build robust and positive relationships between the cities and rural communities. Instead, we are increasingly seeing the emergence of "city states" that are essentially whole entities unto themselves, most favored nations so to speak, whose wealth almost seems to exemplify that awful line of Gore Vidal's ("it is not enough that you succeed, others must fail").

In Canada, John Ralston Saul has stated that he believes the greatest challenge to this country is not the threat of Quebec separating or even of us being overwhelmed by America to the south. Rather, he thinks the country is being sawn in two - the prosperous communities of the south totally disconnected from (and therefore not invested in) the North. I'm not sure that this message helps shed any light on your discussions, but certainly I believe that unless we invest in a revival of our rural economies through enterprise and social development, we are going to suffer increasing disparites in wealth, assets, and community health and vitality...

Ian Gill

Jeb Brugmann - Jun 27, 2003 11:07 am (#17 Total: 17)
Globalegacy


Hi Jeff: Thank you for your reply and questions, and for this forum generally. Let me start with the second question.

Our hypothesis, which is supported by considerable field experience and economic theory, is that most poor communities suffer from patterned leakage of money and capital to affluent markets and institutions. This leakage is typically reinforced by local/national institutional arrangements. Hernando de Soto, for instance, is addressing the effects of legal institutions on this leakage dynamic in detail. At a more general level, and as you know, 'poverty economies'--whether at the national or local scale--suffer from trade relationships that leave them exporting their raw capital/materials and re-importing value-added products. This results in a patterned negative cash flow for the poverty economy, which is itself reinforced by different local institutional arrangements. Of course, every community has faces its own unique challenges as well, including issues of land tenure, land ownership, culture and caste, policy-based barriers to market access etc.

Therefore, social enterprises can be successful businesses and provide a needed local service while at the same time having minimal impact on the overall capital and money flows in the economy. So the individual enterprise may succeed, but the local poverty condition will remain. Recent evaluations of micro-enterprise have exposed this seeming paradox of success in the context of continuing (or worsening) poverty. To overcome this we think that we need to better design social enterprises so that they reverse negative flows and the reinforcing institutional arrangements.

In general, the firms therefore need to be export-oriented and to preferably export those goods or services to affluent markets, creating what I call corrective market access. Doing this will tend to mean that the enterprises may need to be scaled to medium-size in order to handle more complex technology, design, marketing and production/delivery challenges. However, to really change the institutionalized negative patterns on a sustainable basis (in the face of traditional business competition) these firms may need to be supported by local clusters, much as new industries in the affluent economy emerge through clustering. (Towards this end, we are working with the Monitor consulting group.)

So the social venture task then shifts to making a longer-term commitment to specific communities and to developing a cluster of firms in those communities that together can build a more advantageous relationship between its local economy and the globalized marketplace.

Finally, this only works long-term, we think, if local community institutions (a community bank, community development corporation etc.) and/or households hold equity in the firms. Otherwise, the more successful firms, responding to the logic of the market, will relocate operations during the process of growth and consolidation, with possible net negative effects, including relocation of the best human capital. Poor communities that invest substantial social capital in an enterprises success should secure an ongoing revenue stream from that success. Towards this end, we aim to offer workers, community institutions etc. warrants, which can be exercised at low cost, thus also building local investment skills and culture.

Regarding triple bottom-line, I refer to it only generally. I think the concept is most meaningful when it refers to firms that pro-actively seek, as a core business mission, to create added financial, social and environmental value. But the main point is that one firm's triple bottom-line success does not necessarily address the more macro-level dynamics between the slum economy and the metropolitan/national economy.

We're putting all this to the test now in East London, and having honed our business development process there a bit, hope to start working with partner communities and entrepreneurs in South Africa before year-end. In the meantime, we are working with Monitor consulting group and the New Economics Foundation to develop a user-friendly methodology for modeling the money and capital flows between a poor community and the broader market, thus aiding the design of local enterprises that target the reversal of any negative patterns.

Onward and upward! Jeb

We (the Skoll team) already feel incredibly nourished by your many thoughtful, rich and generous posts: you're confirming what the research we did to "test" the online community for the social sector idea told us--that most of us are hungry for knowledge, eager to understand promising new ideas, and willing to share what we've figured out the hard way.

Makes me think of a favorite line of mine in Alice Through the Looking Glass where she says to the Unicorn, "I'll believe in you, if you'll believe in me."

What keeps you going?

Jeff Skoll - Jun 25, 2003 1:52 pm (#1 Total: 18)
Founder of Skoll Foundation


I second Sally's thoughts. I shouldn't be too surprised at online community after all these years, but I have been most impressed with the quality of the posts. Thank you for being charter members of this community, this is where the culture starts that will likely remain the culture for SocialEdge from here on out.

Since Sally is quoting Alice Through the Looking Glass, I thought I would throw in one of my favorite sections from Alice in Wonderland.

** *** ***

Alice asks the Cheshire Cat `Would you tell me, please, which way I ought to go from here?'

`That depends a good deal on where you want to get to,' said the Cat.

`I don't much care where--' said Alice.

`Then it doesn't matter which way you go,' said the Cat.

** *** ***

I don't exactly know how this quote is relevant to SocialEdge...but perhaps somebody out there can rationalize why it is useful?

I'll start: We are hoping to that a sustainable culture and community grows on SE. We don't exactly know what shape or what direction the community might take, so we'll adapt as we go.

Anyone else wanna try?

Kallie Blauhorn - Jun 25, 2003 3:24 pm (#2 Total: 18)


Sally and Jeff,

Whew, those are some good examples of powerfully simple analogies. I agree with both of your interpretations with only a few things to add. I think that SocialEdge has created more of a "way" to get to their end result than this analogy would imply. For example, just in the process itself (i. e. setting up a web site for an on-line community to share and learn from each other), the Skoll Foundation has paved an uncharted road in the on-line sector of social philanthropy. While Alice doesn't care where she goes, both the founders and users are seemingly coming together with heads full of similar visions and hearts full of the determination to get it done.

The people who frequent these pages and use this web site should be as far from Alice as you can get- people who know which way they want to go and know that it matters in which path they choose.

Congrats to the team at the Foundation and the pioneers of SocialEdge!

Steve Rudolph - Jun 25, 2003 10:14 pm (#3 Total: 18)
Director, Jiva


Hi Jeff,

I love your challenge! It's been while since I've read Alice, and I found a site that has the complete story online:
http://www.online-literature.com/carroll/lookingglass/

Let me take a crack at it:

1. Mission and Purpose
It is critical that the hosts of a site have a clear purpose behind their site--with goals, missions, etc. Otherwise, you wind up with an meaningless environment with people babbling nonsense (or nonsense-babbling people).

2. Use of SocialEdge
When visitors come they might not know why they have come, what they are looking for, or what they want to get out of the site. In that case, it doesn't matter where they start, they can just go in any direction, and it'll be just fine--they'll surely find something useful.

3. The need for orientation, mentorship and guidance. Poor Alice has fallen into the SE Wonderland, and is a confused lot! No wonder-- she's never used a discussion board, and there are all these links here and there, and she can't figure out where to start or what she should try to get out of it. The Queen might consider:
- making a newbie guide to those who've recently fallen down the rabbit hole. (The community guidelines are there, but I had to actually hunt them down--and they could be enhanced.)
- creating a mini flash or ppt presentation about the site with some screenshots
- holding physical events perhaps to train people how to use SE.

As I read through Alice, I started finding more and more lessons that could be applied here...

Here's one that could be used to encourage people not to feel shy, and to contribute/share ideas and experiences (I noticed there are over 500 registered users, though only a fraction of them are posting)...

`Speak when you're spoken to!' The Queen sharply interrupted her.

`But if everybody obeyed that rule,' said Alice, who was always ready for a little argument, `and if you only spoke when you were spoken to, and the other person always waited for YOU to begin, you see nobody would ever say anything, so that--'

sbhargav - Jun 26, 2003 10:11 am (#4 Total: 18)


Hi Steve,

I would like to add to your Mission and Purpose and encourage the edge to think about "Who are its customers". One possible answer is that its customers are topical discussion group moderators and it is building a platform to help them.

These moderators would act as beacons for kindred souls and get a meaningful and productive dialogue going.

I for one would stop using "Edge" if it it did not help me towards the passions I care about. Number of people who post and # of posts are psuedo metrics like the famous "eyeballs" of the dotcom era. A more meaningful metric would be based on real results achieved and whether edge becomes the go to place for social entrepreneurs to help them with their passions.

If there were moderated topics ( with moderators from the community not Skoll) and moderating was simple then I would be excited. I would also like the moderator to provide a map to a document repository for the topical area where anyone can download documents that would help in avoiding pitfalls and not reinventing the wheel.

For example I am attaching to this message a final report on the prototype I developed at Stanford University. This should be of interest to those interested in hepling communities through commerce.

Attachments:

SuVyapar Project Final report.doc (37 KB)

sbhargav - Jun 26, 2003 10:16 am (#5 Total: 18)


Oops ,

The document I attached in the earlier message was the wrong one. Right one now attached....

Attachments:

SuVyapar Project Final report.doc (47 KB)

Michelle Goguen - Jun 26, 2003 12:20 pm (#6 Total: 18)


First, a hearty congratulations for getting SocialEdge off the ground. You're already capturing useful discussions and valuable insights.

Next, to help Jeff draw relevance between the Cheshire Cat's quote and SocialEdge...

Isn't this all about organic growth and self-organization? While goals and planning are important, too much of it can snuff the creative spark that happens spontaneously between like-minded yet unique individuals. We all have something different to contribute as well as different ways of getting "there". Creativity (and therefore innovation) happens where contribution meets passion. SocialEdge is about doing something that hasn't been done (or going where no one has gone before). So, if we're going somewhere new, how would we know how to get there?

Jeff Skoll - Jun 26, 2003 1:19 pm (#7 Total: 18)
Founder of Skoll Foundation


Steve,

Wow, what a great post...you even "saw my Alice" and "raised another Alice" (sorry, bad poker terminology).

But good points and I'll make sure Keely sees this.

Jeff Skoll - Jun 26, 2003 1:25 pm (#8 Total: 18)
Founder of Skoll Foundation


Michelle,

Right on...I think the tendency of many "community" sites is too much planning and not enough organic development. Then again, not enough planning / direction can be harmful too. Walking that line seems such an art!

Keely Stevenson - Jun 26, 2003 2:24 pm (#9 Total: 18)
Royal Bafokeng Economic Board


Hey There Steve,
I love this discussion! You have quite a gift for creative expression! Very valuable suggestions for the Queen too. You will be happy to know that we have begun a newbie guide and have a power point with flash that explains how to use the tool. Phil will post it after it is polished. We are all set in planning mode for the Social Edge Live events later in the year that would gather community members to celebrate their relationships and learn more about how to use the tool! Any suggestions for a good location in India?

Here's my invitation to the Tea Party. Gather around for an important question:
How would you enhance the Community Guidelines?

What are some of the key cultural characteristics and values that have already been voiced on Social Edge that need stronger representation in the guidelines?



Link to Guidelines:
http://www2.socialedge.org/?98@42.7ocQaMOsa0A.33201@community_guidelines.html
  

Keely Stevenson - Jun 26, 2003 2:53 pm (#10 Total: 18)
Royal Bafokeng Economic Board


Michelle, What a fantastic quote: "Creativity happens where contribution meets passion!" It really describes the genesis of this site and how we hope it will support and empower contributions of changemakers around the world.... finding the balance between organic growth and responsible nurturing of that growth via planning is key!

sally osberg - Jun 26, 2003 3:32 pm (#11 Total: 18)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Hi SuVyapar,

Your post is thought-provoking--moderators as "beacons for kindred souls" who otherwise might run into the rocks! I like it very much.

Sally

Dragonfly - Jun 26, 2003 4:52 pm (#12 Total: 18)


I think it's important to remember that not everyone is bold, risk-taking and confident out of the gates. Part of the challenge in any community is to make it safe for people to share out-of-the-box ideas, communicate honest reactions and disagree with one another.

I believe that an environment where we are encouraged to think about and believe in the impossible, is one where great ideas will germinate into meaningful, actionable programs that can have considerable impact on our society ...

Alice laughed, "There's no use trying," she said, "one can't believe impossible things."

"I daresay you haven't had much practice," said the Queen. "When I was your age, I always did it for half-an-hour a day. Why, sometimes I've believed as many as six impossible things before breakfast."

sbhargav - Jun 27, 2003 8:36 am (#13 Total: 18)


I have been playing around with a really cool piece of software ( Personal Brain V2.0) called the Brain.(www.thebrain.com.)

It helps organize thoughts without impeding creativity.

There is I think an enterprise version that maybe the company will licence to your foundation for free or at a reduced fee .You all at Skoll may want to take a look

Jerry Michalski www.sociate.com had presented this product at the Reuters Digital Vision Fellowship program.

sally osberg - Jun 27, 2003 9:00 am (#14 Total: 18)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


so true, Dragonfly--but believing at least six impossible things before breakfast seems a great way to begin any day (even if it is that off-with-her-head queen giving such counsel!).

Sally

Steve Rudolph - Jun 27, 2003 10:17 am (#15 Total: 18)
Director, Jiva


Hi Jeff,

Well, Sally gets the kudos for starting it off. And your invitation really opened things up! Frankly, I could have never imagined creating alalogies between Alice and a social sector website--what a great creative challenge for those who just can't get enough. So any time you're up for some SE Alice Poker, let me know. I'm game!

I would also like to comment on Dragonfly's post, which I think is very relevant. People need to feel safe if they are going to post. And I feel that the SE team has done a great job of creating support, by being attentive and encouraging people. It goes a long way.

Best, Steve

Steve Rudolph - Jun 27, 2003 10:26 am (#16 Total: 18)
Director, Jiva


Hi Keely,

When I logged back on today, there were 11 new posts in this forum. I couldn't imagine what was going on!

The response time for the action you guys take on suggestions is surreal. So couching it in terms of an invitation to a Wonderland Tea Party is VERY apropos. I will certainly give inputs on this shortly.

About a live event in India...we at Jiva have some very lovely tea to serve as well...

Irene Wong - Jun 27, 2003 8:12 pm (#17 Total: 18)
eBay Foundation


What does SocialEdge have in common with Alice, a unicorn, a cheshire cat, and more I suppose the parallel of heading down a rabbit hole on a journey to explore In Wonderland, there is a queen, a ruler who’s called her majesty Unlike on SocialEdge where all is organic, defined and ruled by community However, members do participate in mad hatter-like conversations and debate Where they might not understand one another, but new viewpoints they can appreciate Is SocialEdge a Wonderland for the Social Sector community What remains at the end of this rabbit hole we’ll just have to wait and see Although early comments show it just may be…

-------------------------

Congratulations friends at Skoll for making SocialEdge come to life, which it certainly did this week.

David Bornstein - Jun 30, 2003 10:48 am (#18 Total: 18)


I just logged in today after being away for four days and I was delighted to discover the 'Alice and the Unicorn' thread. It's cool to see an idea that resonates with many people put out there -- and then to see people riff on it, each in their own way. It reminded me of how much shared experience we all have.

Welcome to our inaugural event, “Why Social Edge?” I’m glad you’ve joined us for this interactive, five-day discussion.

As moderator of the event, I encourage you to participate often and creatively. We want Social Edge to be the place where you enjoy meaningful exchanges with the social sector community.

Jeff Skoll and Sally Osberg are the hosts for this week's event, and will remain with us as active participants going forward. We hope you’ll do the same! I want to encourage you to introduce yourself, ask questions and share your ideas during this online event. It is with great pleasure that I introduce Sally and Jeff who are excited to have you here as founding members and eager to learn about your vision for this community.

Host: Jeff Skoll - Jun 23, 2003 10:28 am (#1 Total: 84)

Thanks Keely, online communities are unique reflections of the people who create and shape them. Even though it's our common interest in the social sector that brings us together, the Social Edge community will become whatever you make it. This will be your community—one which I’ll participate in just as you do, one where we can ask each other questions about all sorts of things (including but not in any way limited to social entrepreneurship!), one where we can share what matters to us—whatever that is!

As the Skoll Foundation, our role is to nurture this seedling and to respect and pay attention to all its members. I’m most excited about Social Edge’s potential as a grassroots community—where everyone has something to contribute, where knowledge is freely shared, where all voices are equal, and equally respected.

Throughout this week, I plan to be online to discuss your hopes for Social Edge and to share what I’ve learned over the years about what makes communities like this work, and what doesn't.

But now I’d love to hear from you! Welcome to the Social Edge community!

Host: Sally Osberg - Jun 23, 2003 10:35 am (#2 Total: 84)

Welcome to “Why Social Edge?” our first online event! We’re so glad you’ve come.

As the CEO of the Skoll Foundation and as someone who has worked most of my life in the social sector, I know the power of learning that happens informally-from people sharing their experiences, their challenges, their hopes and dreams. It’s our hope here at the Foundation that Social Edge will facilitate that kind of exchange, that it will be informal rather than formal, lively, provocative, and useful.

I’d like to hear often from you during this event and after. Feel free to tell us what will make Social Edge work for you, what you’d like to see, and what will bring you back. This will be your community; our role at the Foundation will be to facilitate and empower, never to control or dominate. We are fortunate to be working with partners such as Ashoka, Alliance Magazine, Compasspoint and the Foundation Incubator, and would like to thank them for their contributions thus far.

This week, along with Jeff-whose vision inspired creation of Social Edge and whose values will keep us honest in nurturing this fledgling community-I’ll be your host, keen to hear and learn from you. I look forward to our exchange, this week and in all the weeks and months to come.

Keely Stevenson - Jun 23, 2003 11:24 am (#3 Total: 84)
Royal Bafokeng Economic Board


Thank you Jeff & Sally. As everyone can see, we are eager to hear from the community, so let's begin by asking Social Edge founding members and others here today to introduce themselves, ask questions and tell us what their hopes are for this community.

Don't be shy, we want to hear what you think about the possibilities ahead of us.

london calling - Jun 23, 2003 3:43 pm (#4 Total: 84)

My hope is to see some new ideas and tangible results from the discussions that take place. It would be great if this also generated greater public knowledge of nonprofits and social sectors (since most people are still relatively vague about the ins and outs of the sector).

monaji - Jun 23, 2003 3:53 pm (#5 Total: 84)
Charity Focus


Hi, My name is Monica and I am a volunteer at CharityFocus (http://www.charityfocus.org). I read Sally's trust article on Social Edge and I want to hear more about what sparked their interest in building trust via this tool called Social Edge. What was the evolution of their thinking? This is very interesting and I am excited about learning more on this .

Ken Goldstein - Jun 23, 2003 3:55 pm (#6 Total: 84)
Goldstein Consulting


I'm very anxious to see Social Edge be a great success, and pleased to be here to see it from the start.

Prior to joining CompassPoint I spent a few years with HandsNet as the Director of Online Community Development. HandsNet is no longer with us, but the idea of creating an active online community for the social sector is something that I'm still very interested in.

Over in the "Social Sector Soapbox" discussion area (of Social Edge) there's been some talk about the pending legislation regarding foundation payout rates (CARE Act). Another issue I think is vital for us to talk about, and crucial to the future of our sector, is the permanent repeal of the inheritance tax. Social Edge has launched at a crucial time when the ability for us to gather, even if virtually, to discuss these things can have lasting consequences.

The Skoll Foundation has given us this space where we can discuss these issues and formulate and consider responses. Of course, the next step is to make sure that the ideas generated here don't remain here. "Advocacy is Good Management" and hopefully the members of Social Edge will be able to carry what we learn here to the greater community outside of these pages.

Thanks for the welcome - I'm ready to participate!

Jeff Skoll - Jun 23, 2003 4:05 pm (#7 Total: 84)
Founder of Skoll Foundation


Hi Ken -

In its development as an online community, my team at eBay studied many online communities for tips and pointers. I believe we looked at HandsNet too, but my memory is fuzzy.

One of the biggest concerns I have about SocialEdge is that it isn't "transaction driven"...unlike eBay where the underlying basis for the community is transactions / trade. On eBay, you knew people would return again and again and there was some consistency about the community and why people were there. On SocialEdge, I would be very interested about what you think will keep people coming back and forming relationships.

What were some of your takeaways from your HandsNet days? What worked and what didn't work?

Thanks! Jeff

sally osberg - Jun 23, 2003 4:11 pm (#8 Total: 84)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Welcome Monica and Ken! I'm glad you're already on-line at Social Edge and posting. Trust is an extraordinarily vital asset for our sector, so we're hopeful that this community will nourish and grow it; the stronger our bonds of trust, the more resilient and robust we are as an entire sector. That's my theory at any rate!

But I'm curious about what you both, and folks in general, think is behind the pending CARE Act provision affecting foundation payout rates: good, bad, indifferent. Seems that foundation folks are lining up against (after all, no one really likes being regulated) and front line nonprofits for?

What are your perceptions?

sbhargav - Jun 23, 2003 4:13 pm (#9 Total: 84)


Hi Jeff,

Thanks for experimenting with social edge. I started a new discussion on a prototype that I helped develop called SuVyapar. Am not an active online discussion group user so was not sure this was appropriate.

In any case you may find the prototype www.suvy.com and hopefully the discussion if it develops intriguing. By the way I was one of the founding employees of PayPal

Cheers

Sanjay

Bjorn - Jun 23, 2003 4:17 pm (#10 Total: 84)
SV2 (Silicon Valley Social Venture Fund)


Hello all. I am looking forward to seeing this take off. Working with a group of pretty dynamic people with the Silicon Valley Social Venture Fund (SV2), I hope Social Edge becomes one of the tools to help further their philanthropy and working knowledge of the social sector.

Bjorn

sbhargav - Jun 23, 2003 4:05 pm (#11 Total: 84)


Hi I think Social Edge is a neat idea and one of its uses could be to get feedback and support for ones passions. Postive and negative feedback is welcome.

My name is Sanjay Bhargava and I am a 2002-03 Reuters Digital Vision Fellow. As part of my fellowship we developed an interesting prototype called SuVyapar which could possibly be scaled to help 10,000 communities around the world sell $1 billion of merchandise. See www.suvy.com for details.

One of the key insights was that the major problem was demand creation and that could be solved by creating CFM ( Community Friendly Movement). This is similar to an eco friendly movement creating demand for eco friendly products.

Just as the dairy farmers promote milk with a "got milk" campaign, foundations, development institutions etc. could fund marketing campaigns around CFM. CFM is like Fair Trade on steroids.

More on my background on www.transfinium.com.

amaryllis - Jun 23, 2003 4:31 pm (#12 Total: 84)


hi jeff, what a great kick-off event! i'd be interested in hearing about your takeaways from ebay and what aspects of ebay you feel can be applied to social edge to make it an online community that people visit over and over again. though the transaction on social edge isn't $-driven, when people perceive the activity to be one that reciprocally influence one another in a positive way, they will participate and continue to be engaged. i think social edge is a place for me to discuss the latest trend/issues/ideas in the social sector and it's this exchange of ideas and dialogue that will bring me back. thanks for a great forum!

Max - Jun 23, 2003 4:43 pm (#13 Total: 84)
Observer, Pundit, eBay Junkie


Hi! Congratulations on the launch of SociaEdge. It's terrific that Skoll Foundation has provided this space for those of us interested in social sector issues. I see SocialEdge as an important online vehicle as well as an important offline vehicle. The SocialEdge (SE) can help us social sector junkies meet online and I hope, connect offline "in the trenches" for collective, organized and informed action. Discussion is great, discussion followed by action even greater. These are my thoughts on what I would like to see SocialEdge become. Jeff, Sally and the SE staff, although online communities are often organic and are shaped by the community, what does success for SE look like to you ? What was your vision of SE and the SE community when you were conceiving and creating SE ? Peace, Max

Ken Goldstein - Jun 23, 2003 4:51 pm (#14 Total: 84)
Goldstein Consulting


Thanks, Jeff, for the welcome and questions. The immediate take-away from HandsNet that comes to mind in running a similar, social service, online community is the importance of professional moderators. In the non-transaction-based community it's the content that brings folks back - and constantly reminding them of that content.

We put a lot of effort "backstage" - emailing key participants to encourage them to post, making phone calls and writing snail-mail letters to targeted community leaders that we wanted to get involved. I'd say that close to 70% of the moderator's jobs were invisible to the community-at-large.

One of our last major projects was called the "Working Families Online Roundtables." Before launching that we put a lot of research into other attempts to have professional-level online discussions about welfare reform and found that most of them turned out to be e-ghost towns. The killer for most of them was the lack of resources to keep a dedicated moderator guiding the discussions, inviting in key players, and encouraging engagement.

Eventually, in 2001, the dot-com crash diminished our resources as well, and scared several funders away from investing in "online communities" and we folded most of our operations. (HandsNet does still exist as a one-person, part-time operation, and puts out a great weekly digest of human services news, but the active discussions are a thing of the past).

On a side note, we did use eBay as a fundraising vehicle. We had our HandsNet.org mousepads autographed by various celebrities and auctioned them off on eBay, raising about $13,000 (and having a lot of fun). (We also used an earlier version of WebCrossing, which also powers the SocialEdge site.)

Sparky Harlan - Jun 23, 2003 5:03 pm (#15 Total: 84)
Bill Wilson Center


Hi Sally,

Many nonprofit service providers might support this act because of the increased administrative burden that many foundations are now placing on agencies that receive their monies. I have one local foundation that I get funds from that has already scheduled two full days with five of my staff (they also want me there) to discuss a grant that only started six months ago! And, the only funds one FTE person. They have hired consultants that are earning big bucks to evaluate my program to death.

I don't buy that with fewer staff foundations won't take the risks to fund more innovative stuff. Frankly, I think the more staff foundations have the less risks they take. Some large foundations are trying to look more like government these days with their overly cumbersome processes.

Ok, I better stop before I get into trouble here. I long for the old days (I have been asking foundations for funds for over 25 years,) when I could try something new and innovative and a foundation would fund it because they trusted me and my agency.

And, on another topic, I was around during the early days with HandsNet. (I was with the original folks with Hands Across America.) It was a great idea but after awhile it got too expensive when I could get the same information elsewhere for free. It was one of the pioneer online communities for poverty programs, though.

I don't know what will keep me coming back to this forum to post or chat. Perhaps avoiding my real work of managing my agency and raising dollars...usually I clean the staff kitchen instead...

Sparky

sally osberg - Jun 23, 2003 5:33 pm (#16 Total: 84)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Sparky,

Thanks for your post. One of my goals for Social Edge (and it's a tall order, but we're trying!) is to create space where funders and frontliners like you can be honest. As Cyndi Lauper used to say, "money changes everything." But what should really change everything are great ideas in the hands of great people creating real and meaningful results.

I always knew when I could trust a funder, and when that funder trusted me--even when I didn't get a grant. Being treated with respect and dignity matters.

What's your take? Can funders and frontliners come closer together, even when the "result" isn't always a grant? Is there hope?

Jeff Skoll - Jun 23, 2003 5:57 pm (#17 Total: 84)
Founder of Skoll Foundation


For anyone in the online community, what will keep you coming back to SocialEdge? Are you part of other online communities? What works or doesn't work for you there?

Should we offer door prizes?

John Wood (Room to Read) - Jun 23, 2003 6:08 pm (#18 Total: 84)
Room to Read


In answer to Jeff's question about what would keep me coming back -- pretty much the same thing that got me onto Social Edge tonight; that is, knowing that I'd hear interesting insights from opinion leaders, in a very time-efficient manner. And knowing that it's modertated certainly helps, as there are a lot of "junk threads" out there. Thanks Keely for inviting me to join in.....

Jeff Skoll - Jun 23, 2003 6:17 pm (#19 Total: 84)
Founder of Skoll Foundation


A short two years ago (!), we launched the Skoll Foundation website. The central part of the navigation bar on the site was dedicated to "Community". Unfortunately, that part stayed "under construction" until recently.

But the vision was to create a forum for those working in, interested in or contributing to the social sector. Or for those who just had good ideas and wanted to see what other interesting people were up to. It seemed to me then (as it does now), that there is no obvious central forum online for the sector and we wanted to create that a venue to fill that void that was owned by the community itself. In a different vein, many of us know how many good things are going on in the sector and the world...but we are not likely to hear about it on CNN or read about it in the newspaper. So why not create a forum that could shine a spotlight on good things going on?

Some of the biggest lessons from my eBay days were that for community to flourish it takes time, the host has to set a few ground rules (but only a few), and the host has to be responsive to community requests / suggestions. I've always believed that you can't create community, it has to happen on its own. So, our goal is to provide the venue and let the community figure out what to do with it.

Success (to my mind) will be that there are multiple interesting conversations going on at all times and that the community drives the direction of the discussions, not the moderators or the hosts. Furthermore, I think it would be great if some of the discussions lead to new understandings between people (funders vs. grantees for example), new relationships and the sharing of helpful and valuable information. Actually, I really hope that at some point that anyone interested in what is going on in the social sector knows about this forum and considers it a unique and valuable resource.

Maybe it will even cut down on airfare for people who decide to have virtual meetings. Sorry United Airlines!

Anyway, those are some of my thoughts.

K.L.SRIVASTAVA - Jun 23, 2003 6:51 pm (#20 Total: 84)
Researcher and Consultant,Hyderabad,INDIA


I think 'socialedge' will provide new perspectives to participants. Hopefully, we will develop capacity to view old problems in social sector from a different and newer angles.

Thanks.

alicia_contreras - Jun 23, 2003 7:09 pm (#21 Total: 84)
Whirlwind Women


First of all thank you very much Keely for inviting me to be part of this!
In answer to Jeff's question about what would keep my interest in coming back: it is the opportunity of opening a communication bridge where we can share our experiences from both perspectives and learn from it.
I am the program director of Whirlwind Women. We work with women with disabilities in developing countries. And you can visit our web site at: http://whirlwind.sfsu.edu/general_info/whirlwind_women/whirlwind_women1.html

Warm regards, Alicia

simonhealy - Jun 23, 2003 8:14 pm (#22 Total: 84)
Remote services by youth in developing nations


Hi Sally and Jeff from Simon at OrphanIT

Just in response to your post Jeff "One of the biggest concerns I have about SocialEdge is that it isn't "transaction driven"... I would be very interested about what you think will keep people coming back and forming relationships.'

I really like Social Edge and meeting some of you (Mary Lou, Sanjay, Keely and others) on my recent trip to Santa Clara University at the Global Junior Challenge Incubator and will share an example of why people like me will keep coming back here regularly.

My name is Simon Healy and I am the founder of www.OrphanIT.com which is a marketing firm for learning centres in developing nations. We launched OrphanIT about 16 months ago but have been working in this field for about 4 years and have built a learning centre in Tondo Manila so we could work out what works and what doesn't. Our successes and mistakes are all posted here www.SolvePoverty.com

For 6 months weve being trying to design a transaction based gateway for poor but talented youth in developing nations at ICT learning centres to post their profiles and for companies in developed nations to post their jobs. The workflow being managed by us and other mentor/managers ie people from seniorsnet, thirdage etc....

Its called the 'OrphanIT Jobs Gateway' and were hopeful of going live later next month. Nothing as special as this site just very simple and easy to use for youth in developing nations. Kind of like an eLance for the disadvantaged. The reason for this is because we simply cant keep up with the requests for work we get now from people all around Austalia/NZ and the world who want to work with students and graduates of ICT Learning centres

Well a few weeks ago I threw the idea of transactions out the window on our gateway and decided to simply to fund it from my own commercial study abroad marketing firm and my personal finances, put the 200,000 plus people that use our services every month together and see what happens. It will probably be chaos but things cant be more chaotic than they are at present. I believe that enough relationships will be formed that will allow me to continue funding it for years to come. Its objectives are to simply get jobs being posted for students in developing nations to work on. Sure there's a lot of stuff to be worked out but if the last 12 months are anything to go by this will happen naturally.

In the case of Social Edge here's something that occurred last week.................

I posted a small hello in 'Are you a social entrepreneur discussion.'
Michael Chertok who runs an ICT centre (www.digitaldividedata.com) in Cambodia responded and emailed me
to see if we could do some work together.
I responded that we could and were having a phone call later this week to discuss things.
Whilst this was happening I noticed some people in Michael's organisation were also attending the Global Knowledge Partnership's INFOSOC conference in Malaysia this week as a sponsored best practice ICT and we also have one of our project leaders (Dale) there as a sponsored presenter.
I told to Dale to keep an eye out for Gordon (Michael's team member) because Michael had mentioned this to me.
However Dale had already met Gordon, they have become mates and started discussing working together.
This is whilst Michael and I are working out how we can work together to create more work at his centre.
= Beautiful!

Social Edge was the catalyst for making what I hope to be a long term relationship happen between OrphanIT and DigitalDivideData >> Outcome = Job creation, poverty alleviation for many youths at Michael's centre in Cambodia.

So Social Edge has probably contributed to solving poverty in the long term for a small group of people in Cambodia

Sorry that doesnt help with your transaction issue but Social Edge is certainly providing social transactions and a wealth of other benefits that will keep people coming back if more and more relationships like this can be successfully created around the world

Bravo to all of you and long life to Social Edge.

Simon
PS. I've posted Social Edge on our front page so hopefully we can bring many of our members into your wonderful community
http://www.solvepoverty.com/

esther - Jun 23, 2003 8:35 pm (#23 Total: 84)
At Help, Heal & Learn


Just a short time of monitoring and reading the thoughts of other members, has generated my writing again. The boundaries are unlimited in getting resources and balanced information. There is always a different view; that devils advocate, that one that may see a window of opportunity. I do not know about others, but I like to run my thoughts by as many as possible. Getting the bugs out as much as possible, and as close to success as possible.

Max - Jun 23, 2003 9:20 pm (#24 Total: 84)
Observer, Pundit, eBay Junkie


Jeff,

Thanks for sharing more about the SocialEdge vision and your definition of its success. Gotta run, must call my broker and sell my UAL shares

Peace,

Max

Sparky Harlan - Jun 23, 2003 9:22 pm (#25 Total: 84)
Bill Wilson Center


I was reading Simon's comments on connecting with a youth group in Cambodia and it reminded me of a commitment I made to help a group of Mongolians build a Mongolia Figure Skating Association. I met these folks in Mongolia last summer and they have stayed with me here in the States recently. There is no indoor ice skating rink in Mongolia let alone figure skating, but this 8-year-old Mongolian girl is winning gold medals in Montana while she visits here. Her family has received National authorization in Mongolia for the association, and the daughter is a star in that country but they need some help. I was going to help collect some used ice skates here to ship over to Mongolia and help design a website to collect some donations, etc., but I really don't have the time and I am clueless about ice skating.

This could be a perfect forum for linking up folks like this with others who have a passion and more expertise in organizing something like this. We could be talking about trading "free" goods back and forth or linking resources. Like sending some of those great Russian ice skating coaches to Mongolia for a visit or collecting some old skates from the back of those closets in the States.

Anyway, it is just a thought.

Sparky

Prakash Amatya - Jun 23, 2003 9:23 pm (#26 Total: 84)
NGO Forum for Urban Water & sanitation


Great to hear that the Socialedge is launching is today. Wishing you all the best. Prakash amatya Kathmandu

Christy Chin - Jun 23, 2003 9:50 pm (#27 Total: 84)
Skoll Foundation


Ken,

Thank you for your encouragement and active support of Social Edge!

I am thrilled to hear about HandsNet - because one of our goals is to create a learning community where members feel comfortable sharing experiences -- best, promising and disastrous practices. It is often in the most challenging situations that the biggest breakthroughs happen. I hope that we can create a community that encourages just this type of sharing -- and exploring opportunities for the social sector to leap forward.

Does anyone have any lessons learned from HandsNet and other online communities about how to create a safe environment for sharing successes as well as failures?

Christy Chin - Jun 23, 2003 10:00 pm (#28 Total: 84)
Skoll Foundation


Bjorn,

Hopefully Social Edge will become a tool for the dynamic members of SV2 and other engaged philanthropists.

What do you think your dynamic members are looking for? How can Social Edge meet their needs? What are the barriers to engaging them in our community?

Looking forward to hearing from you and your members!

Steve Rudolph - Jun 23, 2003 10:34 pm (#29 Total: 84)
Director, Jiva


Kudos to the SocialEdge team for a well-designed, interactive space that fills a critical gap for the global non-profit community.

As for Jeff's question of "What will keep people coming back?", I feel some answers are:

1. The navigability of the site. SocialEdge scores well here. There are of course ways that it could become even more effective, but for version 1.0, you are off to a great start.

2. A dedicated host and genuinely motivated moderators. After reading the entries on the site over the past week, I was impressed that the creators and founders of the site are so involved in the postings. There are other social portals out there that I've encountered where the host has paid money to get the site developed. Then it hires (uninspired) moderators. It is no wonder why such sites don't attract many visitors.

3. It should be demand driven. It is critical to listen to what the users are saying, and to react accordingly. If the site is grown in an interactive and participatory manner, it will meet the community's needs and will automatically become widely used.

4. Focus. If you keep your focus on a particular community the exchanges will be much more meaningful. You should avoid the urge to keep adding on new angles, dimensions, and features all within SocialEdge, and allowing the site to become bloated. If over time, you find a need to address multiple communities, spin off a new site.

I'm sure there are many such points, but after having worked with online communities for a while, I find these to be some of the most critical.

I have no doubt that SocialEdge will continue to flourish by staying "on the edge". I hope to be able to contribute to the process, and look forward to participating in the discussions.

Best Wishes, Steve Rudolph Director Jiva www.jiva.org

Timothy Freundlich - Jun 23, 2003 11:39 pm (#30 Total: 84)
Director, Strategic Development, Calvert Social Investment Foundation


I think the issue of transactions is key. Door prizes aside...and best practice and shared experience are great, too, but...

If we can engage in the sharing of our social capital, that would be exciting. Our human capital of IP, talent, time and network and financial capital of grants and Program Related Investments...if this environment could incubate innovative and otherwise unlikely partnerships around the efficient flow of social capital into projects and enterprise...that would keep me coming back for more!

So much of the challenge of us all working in this space is that resources and ideas are so siloed. I for one crave environments that break down the barriers that tend to stand between different types of capital...

On doorprizes, off the top, my vote would be for re-regulation by the FCC - if that's something that can be offered it would be nice. Or an end to global warming. Or...

Best to all, Tim

Keely Stevenson - Jun 24, 2003 1:02 am (#31 Total: 84)
Royal Bafokeng Economic Board


As the night owl, I wanted to jump in to say "WOW! How inspiring!" It has been a joy to see such thoughtful contributions today from the community. This is truly a unique community, full of passionate change agents with great ideas for how to use this tool. We have covered a lot of territory for a few hours. From online community “lessons learned” shared by Ken & Steve to Sparky & David’s opinions on the CARE Act and Simon's excellent example of the power of relationship building on Social Edge.

Let's keep it rolling & continue exploring these ideas!

Feel free to keep posting your ideas under this discussion thread, and over the next 4 days, we shall begin to branch out and create new discussion threads for your participation in this event. Jump up one level and check out the new threads:
http://www.socialedge.org/?14@859.VVcLaaSLRN7.122@.1ad7cdea

Tim, door prizes to end Global Warming are on my wish list too!

Steve Rudolph - Jun 24, 2003 3:06 am (#32 Total: 84)
Director, Jiva


Hello All,

This message comes to you from India, where as the summer heat rises, one can find respite really in only a few things--e.g., the season's lucious mangoes--and stimulating SocialEdge posts! ;)

I'm an American citizen, who has spent the past decade in India, where I helped to co-found Jiva Institute (www.jiva.org). Jiva is a nonprofit organization that aims to foster sustainable development through innovative and holistic practices of education, health, and enterprise.

In Education, we have an innovative K-12 school, where best practices and educational successes are turned into learning materials, and are sold throughout the country. (www.jiva.org/education).

In Health, we promote holistic health practices, especially the use of Ayurveda (India's traditional medical science), with the help of technology. For instance, we have an Online Health Clinic (www.ayurvedic.org) that has treated thousands of patients worldwide--all through the net! Also, we have recently extended this service to rural areas using handhelds (www.jiva.org/programs/teledoc).

And in enterprise (the main reason for my being here in SocialEdge), we aim to help nonprofit organizations achieve greater impact through the application of efficient management techniques, creative income strategies, and enabling technologies. This division evolved out of Jiva's own practices that we adopted (unwittingly) over the years in our attempt to survive in the social sector, relying mainly on earned income strategies.

The social sector is evolving rapidly, and it is thrilling to be a part of this exciting evolution. I realize that in order for us to be the most impactful that we can be with our Enterprise activities, we have to understand the various facets and needs of the different communities in our domain. On SocialEdge, I hope to be able to understand these communities and their needs in greater depth, and in doing so, be able to create more relevant and useful tools, models, resources, and programs that will help other nonprofits reach their goals more quickly and effectively.

Ganesh Neelam - Jun 24, 2003 3:50 am (#33 Total: 84)
SRTT


Hello everybody,

I am Ganesh Neelam, a Geologist working with BAIF a NGO involved in rural development since last 30 years.

nice to share experiences in the field of social development through this online conversation. I am happy that social edge is working with a topic of prime need for today. Actually even we are intensly involved in social mobilization and have valuable experience. This is a nice forum to share experience and get new learnings from others. Hope this will be a valuable learning for me and BAIF

David Bornstein - Jun 24, 2003 7:30 am (#34 Total: 84)


In response to Jeff's question about what will keep people coming back, I am thinking about the qualities of the 'weblogs' that I like to tune into. Generally, I go to places where I encounter people who take the time to post concise, strong (and sometimes irreverent) entries and who put forth intriguing perspectives or provide new information. Also anything that convincingly challenges the conventional wisdom or my own assumptions about the world I find especially valuable.

Terre Logsdon - Jun 24, 2003 7:33 am (#35 Total: 84)
YMCA of the East Bay


Greetings and thank you for this forum!

I've been reading the posts over the past few days, and I do feel that you are being true to your vision - facilitating the discussion, but not guiding it. Very valuable! It's difficult to make the time for conversations between people outside of your immediate realm (office, company, communities of practice, etc.) that do not necessarily have a tangible point except to see where the conversation takes you. Of course, we all know ideally that this is where innovation occurs...it's just challenging to make the space for it.

I am the Sustainable Community Development Director for the YMCA of the East Bay, based in Oakland, CA. I can see already that this community will be a major asset to the social sector at the microcosm level (the Bay Area) and the macro (the world) Good job!

David Bornstein - Jun 24, 2003 7:38 am (#36 Total: 84)


Hi Sally,

This forum is terrific!

I think the issues that the CARE Act raises are very interesting. The basic question of how and when foundations should best allocate their philanthropic resources is an important one that deserves serious thought.

There seem to be some issues that are so pressing and urgent that it makes sense in some cases to spend as much money as possible on trying to solve them while we have a chance to. For example, it doesn't make sense to delay major expenditures on certain environmental threats. It's possible that these problems will be far more difficult (and expensive) to manage (if indeed they can be managed) ten or fifteen years from now.

So I wonder if it make sense for a foundation that is interested in environmental preservation, for example, to save 95% of its assets for future needs?

What do you think?

Warm regards, David

Marianna Grossman Keller - Jun 24, 2003 7:57 am (#37 Total: 84)


Hi all,

I am a partner of Silicon Valley Social Venture Fund (SV2) and in my business activities, I am working to catalyze economic resurgence through innovation, guided by the principles of sustainability and tools like biomimicry.

One opportunity that the Social Edge forum provides is to help activists and philanthropists look at the larger systems in which social and environmental problems occur. It is easy to latch on to a particular symptom and focus on alleviating the problem without going further up stream. For example, one program might offer help to children who are falling through the cracks of the social safety net. Yet we need to establish and coordinate complementary efforts to reweave the web of support for families to prevent the need for rescuing. Perhaps we need to consider designing social programs, legislation and enterprises that grow healthy communities and an environmentally sustainable economy.

David Robinson - Jun 24, 2003 8:03 am (#38 Total: 84)
The Information Forge Inc.


Hi

My name is David Robinson. We have a start-up company (The Information Forge Inc.) that is developing software to assist people serving nonprofit organizations to track their clients and services. Our aim is to provide accurate and accessible information in an integrated fashion that will help management evaluate their services and plan for the future.

We are designing our software to be as accessible and useful as possible to management and frontline workers. We are aware of many of the issues that face the sector, especially in Canada where we live, but would like to learn more about the sector in other parts of the world.

We hope that this forum can provide a place where we can meet with stakeholders in the people serving nonprofit sector and learn about their ‘pain’ so that we can design our systems to support their work, planning and reporting.

Thanks for your work getting this off the ground!

David

Matthew Hamilton - Jun 24, 2003 8:34 am (#39 Total: 84)


Jeff -

I think one of the very useful things that Social Edge could contribute is a way to constructively create (and identify) "momentum" in the sector -- certain ideas, issues, themes, etc. that people and organizations can help push.

Right now a lot of this happens behind the scenes at various funder gatherings, and it's a game of who knows who. I'd like to see the conversation opened up, not as a place to make pitches, but to see what kinds of things gather traction and lead to real *actionable* possibilities.

- Matt Hamilton

Karin Hillhouse - Jun 24, 2003 9:19 am (#40 Total: 84)
Ashoka - Changemakers.net


Thank you for this introduction and information!

Social Edge promises to be a hugely important forum for exchange of resources and making connections. Already in the first day and a half of postings, I've found several programs and organizations I did not know about. They will soon appear in relevant collections in the Changemakers Library.

These initiatives, like Jiva.org, will be of tremendous use to Ashoka's audience of social entrepreneurs and others who visit the Changemakers.net site for proven, ground-breaking examples of social change for the good around the world.

Thank you, Social Edge, for making this forum open to all!

Karin Hillhouse
Editor, Changemakers.net Library
http://www.changemakers.net/library
Ashoka Innovators for the Public
Arlington, VA

Lisa Hempel - Jun 24, 2003 9:24 am (#41 Total: 84)
Sparkpr


I just read your meaningful post about what you think makes an online community work -- very helpful.

I'm interested in the issue you raise on maintaining focus. Do you think Social Edge would stray from its focus if we were to include specific areas for those members who have individual categories of interest such as healthcare, environment, education, etc.?

This has been something that we debate internally and some members raise as a potential area of expansion. I'm curious what your reaction is to this idea. I wonder if this type of categorization would enhance or detract from the shared learnings of the broader community?

Cheers.

Steve Rudolph - Jun 24, 2003 9:40 am (#42 Total: 84)
Director, Jiva


Hi Lisa,

You should try to ensure you don't become a victim of your own success, where the site just grows and grows, and becomes a virtual blob. I think the best sites are those that set parameters on how far the platform will go, and ensure that no matter how big it grows, it will manage to maintain itself. E-bay is a good example of such a platform. Users buy and sell stuff, all through self-created accounts and shops. The "organizers" can limit their involvement, as the community manages and monitors itself (with ratings/feedback).

If you go on creating more and more areas, the site could start to become unwieldy after some time, and impossible to manage in a centralized manner.

Think more about establishing parameters and tools that permit and encourage self-organization...

K.L.SRIVASTAVA - Jun 24, 2003 9:45 am (#43 Total: 84)
Researcher and Consultant,Hyderabad,INDIA


I wish to support the point made by Marianna G. Keller for emphasis on search for sustainable solutions of problems in this forum, rather than some quick-fixes.

In developing countries like India, the educational sector can provide an important area of productive work for social entrepreneurs. More importantly, the relevant innovations in this sector will create foundation for sustainable changes in the social sector.

The bulk of population in India can not afford to educate their children in good private schools. In other schools, the educational standards are quite low. The challenge is: how to improve the quality of education while keeping the cost affordable for ordinary people? Aided by modern tools like internet and guided by the social values which have inspired the founders of Social Edge, appropriate solutions can be found and marketed to the communities.

In this context,I felt very happy to know about the work being done by Jeeva in Faridabad, India (message by Rudolf).

If Social Edge forum includes discussions and technologies for affordable educational innovations in developing world and similar other topics leveraging its global reach, it will attract a loyal' community of users who will keep coming back to this site.

Thanks. K.L.Srivastava klsrivat@yahoo.com

london calling - Jun 24, 2003 10:13 am (#44 Total: 84)


I couldn't agree more with you Steve... I think the best way for this is to start by keep forums together to begin with and then start to seperate once there is a solid community base.

In the end I could see Social Edge working very similar to eBay by having categories and more importantly, also being able to "resort" by regions so that those that are looking for answers/help/questions for a particular part of the world, can find the information they need.

sally osberg - Jun 24, 2003 3:53 pm (#45 Total: 84)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Hi David,

I agree with your premise: spending decisions should be driven by a rigorous assessment of 1. The problem or opportunity one seeks to address or exploit; 2. The tools, strategies, and resources available to make serious headway/impact; and 3. Other variables--time, space,people (especially people!)etc.--and prediction of how they will affec the problem or the solution...

Sounds easier to do than it acutally is, though. In thinking about work underway to identify an AIDS vaccine, for example, it's humbling to reflect on the decades and billions spent on cancer research--with only modest progress. One can't really know what the future holds--how genetics, in the case of cancer research, would come to dominate the quest for cures.

Michael Chertok - Jun 24, 2003 6:39 pm (#46 Total: 84)


Steve, thanks for your thoughtful post with ideas about how to keep folks coming back to SocialEdge...several other posts have had nice ideas as well.

Simon, it's great to see how SocialEdge is already building connections between the organizations we're working with.

As moderator of the Social Sector Soapbox forum on SocialEdge, I think paying attention to what keeps us all engaged in this dialog is critical...not only do I want you to come back, but to use what you find here to make a difference in your work.

In that vein, I'd like to encourage some of you who are posting for the first time to take a look at the "My Social Edge" section of the site. You can register there to receive email messages with new posts on any conversation on SocialEdge site that interests you. I know I'm much more likely to stay engaged and follow the dialog when it appears periodically in my inbox!

Also, come check out the discussions in the Social Sector Soapbox...or start one of your own. In addition to the conversation about the CARE Act, we've been having a critical dialog about the McKinsey research that says there $100 billion that could be saved annually in the sector...and another about whether/how organizations in the sector should be rated by watchdog groups.

One more thing...if we're going to really make this a community, I want to know who you are! You've gotta look better than Consider uploading a digital pic of yourself if you haven't already.

Karen Nemsick - Jun 24, 2003 9:59 pm (#47 Total: 84)
Healing Waters


Sally,

As you probably know already, a group of "funders and frontliners" has been meeting in San Francisco for nearly two years, called the Social Change Forum.

We have monthly roundtable discussion on current topics in the nonprofit sector. Our goal is to have lively, honest dialogue and problem-solving around current trends and issues.

Our group includes mid-career nonprofit professionals who are foundation directors and program officers, nonprofit directors, consultants to the nonprofit sector and others. Many of us have been both in the role of grant-maker and grant-seeker, share an interest in increasing the effectiveness of the nonprofit sector and are interested in creating engaged relationships between funders and fundees. Social Change Forum members participate as individuals and represent and contribute their own views and experiences, not that of their foundation or organization.

The most critical element we we faced in setting up the Forum was figuring out how to build enough trust within the group so that we could honestly discuss current issues in the sector. We have a hard and fast rule: the Social Change Forum is a “pitch-free zone”. This means that direct service providers do not pitch foundation members and foundation members do not use the meetings as a vehicle to evaluate nonprofits.

It's definitely taken a little while to become a group that can be completely honest with each other, but I think we're getting there. And despite our no pitch rule, some of us ended up working together in funding relationships. I think that the issues we've discussed in the Forum have allowed these partnerships to really develop into very successful approaches to resolving social issues!

so there is definitely hope!

maryliz500 - Jun 25, 2003 10:22 am (#48 Total: 84)
East Palo Alto Tennis & Tutoring


Hi, I agree with Steve Rudulph. If the site gets too complicated it will discourage people from using it. MIchael Chertok's suggestion to begin with "My Social Edge" is an excellent place to begin.

Bill Lee - Jun 25, 2003 3:22 pm (#49 Total: 84)


Coming from a message board technology/on-line community background, I'm so impressed by the layout of this site and its use of community technology. Congrats again on getting this together -- imho, the community technology that you guys have put together in this site is a significant step forward over other sites and to building a lasting social edge community. Congrats!

B

Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Jun 25, 2003 7:50 pm (#50 Total: 84)
HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates


First, I'd like to thank Keely for her gracious and timely invite: I appreciate the chance to join you here.

I have had a great deal of pleasure, learned a great deal and made many good friends in virtual communities online. Howard Rheingold's Brainstorms community is my home away from home, but I also spend time on the Financial Times boards, and am looking forward to the opportunity to do the same here.

I'm intrigued by many of the same questions that others here are raising, so I'll leave my self-introduction at this point, and hie me to a topic I'd like to address -- what's the glue that can bind non-commercial communities together.

Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Jun 25, 2003 8:13 pm (#51 Total: 84)
HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates


Jeff says:

I would be very interested about what you think will keep people coming back and forming relationships.

My guess is that people come back to [non-transaction-driven] virtual communities because making a contribution (posting an idea) generates gratitude (a laugh, a wry smile, an aha!) which triggers generosity (an associated idea, enthusiasm, something in you that wants to reciprocate) which makes a contribution (a posted response) -- in a cycle which is sustained because there are many recipients for each gift, and because the commons of thought, trust and caring is continually enriched.

That's the long form of it, the short form is, "I like these folks, I enjoy talking with them -- there's always something new to learn."

K.L.SRIVASTAVA - Jun 25, 2003 9:33 pm (#52 Total: 84)
Researcher and Consultant,Hyderabad,INDIA


Thank you Charles Cameron for providing great insights into online community behavior. That helps us to analyze and understand ourselves as individuals and as members of community.

As a community member, I have a choice to make. I can visit this site or go to some other site, or choose to do some other activity. This happens almost intutively.

The 'Social Edge' team has to ask itself- how is Social Edge different from others? What is our USP? This should be articulated more prominently.

This will further reinforce our community behavior.

Thanks.

Lisa Hempel - Jun 25, 2003 10:26 pm (#53 Total: 84)
Sparkpr


I'm struck by your theory that each post here is a gift given, and that the gift has many recipients. We are attempting to answer the question, "what will inspire the members of this community to continue to return?" and it makes perfect sense that people would be drawn to the opportunity to give and recieve gifts. This is especially true if the gifts have a meaningful impact on the individual and their work - this reward then breathes more life into the cycle, making it more likely to be sustained.

Thanks for the gift Charles!

michaellewkowitz - Jun 26, 2003 5:35 am (#54 Total: 84)


Hello all,

This is a great start to the site. In this discussion, I find myself still stuck on the idea that this isn't/can't be transaction driven. My question is why not?

When I think of sites that I find useful, they tend to help me get things done. What if this site started to serve some of the practical common needs of the group. The idea of focussed conversations/meetings that reduce the need for travel might be a simple one to start with. I'm sure www.icacan.ca, www.icacan.ca/institute/ would be able to add some value there.

There are also of course the practical solutions like the tech community's beloved www.craigslist.com. And, there are the on-line working group tools like groove etc. What about having a component that brings us back because it becomes an indispensable working tool for everyday? Could some of these things even be transaction driven?

I'm not suggesting doing all these things and becoming a big bloated site, but I AM asking, why stop at free-ranging on-line discussion? Is there a simple next step that will make this an indispensable everyday tool?

For the community... are there any on-line services that you find useful in the day to day. One's that you do use? One's that you'd like to use?

Anyway... just my two cents. Back to the day to day !

Michael

Steve Rudolph - Jun 26, 2003 9:05 am (#55 Total: 84)
Director, Jiva


Hi Marianna,

I'm all with you on biomimicry. Two books that I enjoyed very much in this domain were "Emergence" and "Surfing the Edge of Chaos". Although neither was targeted at the Social Sector, there were of course many lessons to be learned and applied. Highly recommended.

After reading them, and while I was in the midst of a development project, I wrote a short article about "Digital Ecologies", where I explain why I feel most technology projects in developing countries do not take hold and sustain. The reason is that most usually don't resonate with the existing living/human systems. In case you're interested, it's here: http://jiva.org/report_details.asp?report_id=49.

One of my missions right now is to find ways of bridging gaps in the social sector, especially between nonprofits and funding organizations. I think across both the human and technological domains, looking to identify protocols, a common language and vocabulary, and systems that will enable a better interfacing of people with people, people with technologies, and technologies with each other. That's why I'm so interested in Social Edge--it provides an opportunity to explore all of these areas.

I like to think of things at the macro scale--the kind of things you have brought up. I am also extraordinarily interested in finding ways to implement them at the micro-level. I think this is a key understanding in self-organizing systems. We don't have to over-orchestrate, but we do need to create the right kind of building blocks that permit complex systems to be built.

I know we're in a bit of an abstract space right here, but I get great pleasure out of concretizing such concepts, and making them _really work_ for people...

pamlogan - Jun 26, 2003 10:19 am (#56 Total: 84)
Kham Aid Foundation


Hello Jeff and All, What I hope to get from this site is a way to reach people who might possibly fund programs that my little nonprofit operates in Tibetan areas of China. For instance, I could really use some grant moneys to support midwife training for Tibetan village women, a great program that we started last year. We could also use some sponsors for our wheelchair program, which gives donated wheelchairs to poor disabled people, both Chinese and Tibetan. My website is www.khamaid.org. Anyone interested? Pam Logan

davebehappy - Jun 26, 2003 11:43 am (#57 Total: 84)
David Zinman


Congratulations to all involved with Social Edge. It seems that a vibrant community is being birthed. As with many online communities that have come before, this one can also become woven into the tapestry of people's lives.

So let me lift a glass of welcome to Social Edge -- L'Chiam, Cheers, and Skoll!



Dave Zinman

sally osberg - Jun 26, 2003 11:46 am (#58 Total: 84)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Hi K.L.,

The Skoll team wants to know about USP? and we're not too proud to ask!

Thanks,

Sally

Kim Cranston - Jun 26, 2003 12:20 pm (#59 Total: 84)
Institute for Organizational Evolution


Hi Jeff and Sally,

Congratulations on launching what looks like an interesting social venture/space. I'm curious to see how it/we evolve. What are you hoping for?

Best,

Kim

sally osberg - Jun 26, 2003 3:41 pm (#60 Total: 84)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Hi Kim,

Thanks for the kind words. What we're hoping for is just what is starting to happen: folks meeting, exchanging ideas and experiences, learning from and challenging one another--and that all this learning and knowledge will help individuals and the sector be more effective. Most of all--especially at this nascent stage-- we're hoping the community itself will decide and take charge of where it wants to go, what it wants to do, and how it will organize itself. We're here to nurture and to learn--and not to direct or control.

Sally

sally osberg - Jun 26, 2003 4:12 pm (#61 Total: 84)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Charles,

Your post made my day. Freely given, generously conceived, generative in spirit, ideas such as what you've offered here are true treasures.

Sally

Jeff Butler - Jun 26, 2003 5:30 pm (#62 Total: 84)
Mayfair Improvement Initiative


In pondering what would keep people coming back to this site, there seem to be two broad reasons.

One is the dynamic side - the chance to interact person-to-person, come across new ideas, debate an issue, express yourself, whatever. The name Social Edge (as in "cutting edge", I presume?) expresses that pretty well. I really enjoy having the chance to connect with people who are making good and innovative things happen. And where else can you have someone working in Tibet or India drop into the middle of your local conversation? Too cool!

The other is the more static side - the straight-up usefulness of this site as a tool or resource of some sort. Michael Lewkowitz talked about this in message #54. I'm not so sure about having something transaction based. I do think, however, that in addition to heartfelt and lively interaction, people would like to find the best possible information to answer their questions, solve the challenges they face, etc. I'm on some community development list-serves that aren't nearly as intriguing as this website, but they get a lot of use from people posting a question about where to find a particular resource, a job opening, and so on.

I don't think Social Edge should try to become the end-all repository for all possible information, but there should be a practical way to cull through the various postings and/or get a "community" response to a question. The various "Discussion" section subsets (Anything Goes, The Lounge, Best/Disastrous Practices, The Knowledge Vault) are a good start. However, after a month or so, I'm sure the website will have gotten more postings than I have time to read thoroughly.

I guess I'm saying Social Edge should keep its wonderfully unique and dynamic side, but have some sort of well-defined (see Steve Rudolph's comments) functionality too.

esther - Jun 26, 2003 7:56 pm (#63 Total: 84)
At Help, Heal & Learn


Jeff,

I do agree with you totally, I am hoping that Socialedge, become a unique site that is a learning tool, growing place and long-term resources and gaining a few friends is a bonus. I am in hope that their mission statement will reflect just that. Most importantly, I would like to tap the resources and be a resource. I have learned to broaden my scope already. I have never been connected to the outside world. I have been reading Orphan IT and other. We tend to get caught up in our own strives and forget there are many others going on in the world. All is valuable to the recipient, and one more step towards a better, but never perfect world.

Esther

Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Jun 26, 2003 10:01 pm (#64 Total: 84)
HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates


Thank you, Sally:

Your tone of voice comes across in your careful choice of words -- and isn't that one of the great magics of this medium?

How may I be of service?

Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Jun 26, 2003 10:19 pm (#65 Total: 84)
HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates


Hi:

And thanks for your kind comment, K.L. You say:

I have a choice to make. I can visit this site or go to some other site, or choose to do some other activity. This happens almost intutively.

Just so. I have to admit that the opportunity to talk with people from around the globe is one of the things that keeps bringing me back to cyberspace -- the opportunity to find myself in a community of the like-minded !

I have a special fondness for India, too, having spent my honeymoon in Lucknow and Varanasi.

Besides, we live in a very small village -- this world of ours -- and the simplest answer to NIMBY ("not in my back yard") is that everywhere is my back yard these days! In light of which, I'd like to ask your opinion of Vandana Shiva. I have an article of hers about the waters of the Ganges being privatized, and I'm troubled that water is becoming a source of contention, in India and elsewhere. It seems to me that water is one of those things so essential to life that we tend to take it for granted – until it becomes scarce.

I spent some time working on water issues during my last year at The Arlington Institute, and remember being moved by a remark Dr Aaron Wolf made while discussing his extensive database of water treaties:

Water treaties are a special breed, according to Wolf. Even if two countries are mortal enemies, they are more likely to back down when it comes time to negotiating water resources. "Though nations do sometimes use water rights as a political tool, they will not only come to agreement eventually but they will also honor that agreement, even when violence breaks out over other issues," he said.

http://www.enn.com/news/enn-stories/2000/02/02032000/water_9640.asp

That's a pretty profound impact, it seems to me, operating at a deep and rich level of the psyche which we would do well to tap in these times of threat and conflict.

Enough for now: warm regards...

Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Jun 26, 2003 10:44 pm (#66 Total: 84)
HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates


Thank you for the return gift of your enthusiasm, Lisa.

I guess that part of what I was driving at in my earlier post is that the anthropology of gift economies is something we should contemplate. There's a marvelous book called The Gift: Imagination and the Erotic Life of Property by Lewis Hyde that has some fascinating insights. And the gift is more than the gift itself, it carries the generosity of giving with it -- so even the slightest gift is part of the immense tapestry of exchange and benefit and gratitude.

And then I think the notion of the commons is also worthy of our contemplation...

Jim DeMartini - Jun 27, 2003 7:33 am (#67 Total: 84)
Seiler & Company, LLP


Jeff, Sally and everyone at the Skoll Foundation:

Social Edge is a wonderful venue to facilitate communication among social entrepreneurs and professionals. The open exchange of ideas and experiences (good and bad) is incredibly valuable.

sally osberg - Jun 27, 2003 8:25 am (#68 Total: 84)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Thanks so much, Jim. What a great learning experience this has been for us all!

Sally

sally osberg - Jun 27, 2003 8:38 am (#69 Total: 84)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Charles,

In my experience, there are people in this world who manage somehow to remind us all, gently and authentically, that we're better than we know. If you would just keep that spirit glowing, as your time and willingness allows, you will serve all of us and this ever smaller world of ours wonderfully.

I am so glad to have met you!

Sally

Caroline Hartnell - Jun 27, 2003 11:37 am (#70 Total: 84)
Alliance Magazine


Hello

I'm editor of Alliance Magazine and I just want to say how delighted we are to be involved with SocialEdge at the very beginning as a founding partner. Congratulations to everyone who's been involved in developing it so far!

What will keep people coming back? One of the things I find most exciting about my own job is looking at my email in the morning and finding messages, articles and bits of news from people from all over the world. I'm sure others will feel just the same reading postings on SocialEdge. Our experience of publishing an international magazine suggests a real thirst for ideas and a willingness to look at what's happening in other places and see how it could be applied 'back home'. We often come across people who've 'met', exchanged ideas and often ended up working together through email addresses printed in Alliance.

But as someone who's always looking for information and exposed to far more than I can handle, I do agree with all those who've talked about the need for focus and for SocialEdge not to become too unwieldy. Everyone in the non-profit world seems to have too much to do, and once the honeymoon's over I guess people may stop coming back if it takes too long to find what they need. I’m sure good, committed moderators are half the battle, and those SocialEdge clearly has. But preventing the site from growing too huge and organizing material as it comes in are huge challenges.

We very much look forward to being part of it.

Jeff Skoll - Jun 27, 2003 1:50 pm (#71 Total: 84)
Founder of Skoll Foundation


Caroline, welcome to you and thank you for your fine magazine, Alliance. I hope that this venue will be helpful to you and your team for finding fresh content and ideas and I hope that the articles in your magazine will be good discussion pieces on SocialEdge.

In your role, you know better than anyone the importance of finding the most relevant material amongst huge volumes of information and then presenting that material in a structured, accessible manner. So please keep letting the team here know of your suggestions.

Michal Kravcik - Jun 27, 2003 1:56 pm (#72 Total: 84)
People and Water


Hi everyone,
From my experinces it is some important is to support people around the globe with very strong Spiritual Philantropy (Financial spirituality support spiritual filantropy). It would be very very nice that avery financial support programmes around the globe was base on the motivate human sources.I have some experiences in disadvantage regions in Slovakia and from this is very clear mesage: intreractive multisectoral dialogues in communities is a salt for sustainable life. About this experiences You can red in:
http://www.changenet.sk/peopleandwater/sprava.stm?x=1480
Michal Kravcik, Ashoka Fellow from Slovakia
People and water
www.peopleandwater.sk

Liz Bremner - Jun 27, 2003 2:29 pm (#73 Total: 84)
The Foundation Incubator


It's great to see all the interest in Social Edge during this inaugural week. We at The Foundation Incubator are so pleased to be an early partner in this exciting forum. At TFI we hear fresh thinking from our membership of close to 40 emerging and established foundations and donors on so many different topics and we host really incisive discussions. I have often lamented that there hasn't been a way to get that real time thinking out to a broader audience. Now's there's a way! Thanks for creating this vehicle for making connections and sharing knowledge.

sally osberg - Jun 27, 2003 4:14 pm (#74 Total: 84)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Hi Liz,

It's folks out there like you, and all the new and emerging forms (including the Foundation Incubator) convening, encouraging and collaborating that will drive innovative new practices in philanthropy and throughout the sector. Thanks for being a partner is this exciting venture.

Sally

Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Jun 27, 2003 4:35 pm (#75 Total: 84)
HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates


Hello, Caroline, all:

A while back, I did some work in the brainstorming phases of a magazine that lasted about three issues. The intended readership was people who had spent a major part of their lives achieving success, and were looking for meaning. I coined the term adult onset idealists to describe them, because they were already well grounded in realism, and came by their ideals within the context of that realistic sense of how things happen. I wanted to add a second cluster of readers, the ones I'd call adult onset realists, who have spent the early part of their lives on some dreamlike trajectory, generous in spirit but perhaps a bit out of touch with the practical world, and come to realize they need to get grounded…

In any case, what I wanted was to have the magazine report on projects like Pamela's project in Kham, Tibet, where the ideals are in place but the finances may be a bit on the small side,

*** not as a pitch -- because the "adult onset idealists" reading the magazine wouldn't be grants officers (though some few of them might be) but just people who knew about success and were looking for meaning

*** not as a travelogue or adventure story – because the idea would be to convey what was possible and how it would benefit those who benefited and reward those who participated

but in such a way that some one reader here or there might be inspired to connect with some one clinic or school or network -- and spend a vacation, a year, a honeymoon, or a small fortune, adding knowledge, personality and care into the mix – of the sort that only expert realists can muster.

And then there's be the articles that reported the connections, the adventures, the outcomes...

*

As I say, the magazine only lasted three issues, but the idea remains with me, as one of those "if all of the wished for things came true, this would be one of them" things.

We desperately need to shift the common assumption that idealists are too marginal to be realistic, or realists too practical to have ideals. Head and heart need to inform each other, practicality and compassion need to work in together.

All of which makes me grateful to be here with you, where the process seems well under way.

Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Jun 27, 2003 4:40 pm (#76 Total: 84)
HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates


Wallace Black Elk once told me:

Those spirits bring you back.
They bring you down to the sacred altar,
down to earth;
They make you down to earth.

Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Jun 27, 2003 11:02 pm (#77 Total: 84)
HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates


Sally:

Here we are in the welcome item, and already it's time to say goodbye!

I appreciate what you say about keeping the spirit glowing, but when I asked How can I be of service? I was really wanting to know something more along the lines of what specific gifts I should offer here.

Stories, for instance. There are stories about that spirit, and how it's transmitted. I knew a white priest and school teacher who lifted his hat to a black woman in South Africa many years ago, at the height of apartheid, because she was a lady and he was a gentleman and gentlemen lift their hats to ladies. As you might imagine, this surprised the heck out of the woman's nine year old son, who had never thought to see such a thing. And momentary as the gesture was, it had its impact – the nine year old was to become known to us as Archbishop Tutu. I wondered whether to offer a few of those stories here...

Games. I have designed a game that's useful in getting people warmed up to each other in online conferences, and which can also serve as a matrix not unlike the Smart Commons Mosaic you used in the Water conference – or be played for sheer joy. That's something I could offer for your ongoing forums, or for some future conference perhaps.

And then there's stuff about organizing online conferences and salons, and what it is that allows people to touch one another profoundly, and lightly, and practically in those venues, and what variants might be of specific use and interest and refreshment to a global community of people with strong service motivation…

But I didn't want to offer gifts until first I'd asked if you needed anything – the secret meaning to my question about what service I might offer.

I guess I'm going to take some of my more immediate thoughts over and join Keely in Discussions > Social Edge Feedback > Categories, Categories, Categories... because I wouldn't mind settling down into working mode and trying to get to grips with those issues of venue, utility, interest and refreshment as they apply to SocialEdge.

Settling down into working mode, like getting to know, inspiring, playing, and relaxing, being something that requires its own ethos, its own atmosphere.

*

So.

Wonderful to meet you. I'll be around – and I'll also be investigating Ashoka and other places I've found out about by coming here.

Thank you, again.

K.L.SRIVASTAVA - Jun 28, 2003 6:14 am (#78 Total: 84)
Researcher and Consultant,Hyderabad,INDIA


Hi Sally,

Sorry, I was out of station, and I could not participate in the discussion for some time. In my post, I stressed the need for having a USP for Social Edge. By this I meant the marketing term " Unique Selling Proposition".

I can see the strong points of this site. But I have not yet seen your overall mission and strategy. If the members could know more about your mission, and how you are planning to achieve your goals in a novel way, this will inspire the members to contribute more frequently and in line with the mission of this site. I hope this will promote community solidarity and loyalty for this site ( the 'Social Edge' brand).

Thanks

K.L.SRIVASTAVA - Jun 28, 2003 6:34 am (#79 Total: 84)
Researcher and Consultant,Hyderabad,INDIA


Hi Charles!

Thank you very much for your valuable comments. Sorry for my delay in responding to you, as I was out of station for some time.

I am very happy to know about your love for India. I have read a number of publications of Vandana Shiva. She is a strong personality in our environmental movement. I shall visit the web link that you have mentioned.

I will love to have further interactions with you and receive more such advices and links to update our knowledge.

With personal regards, K.L.Srivastava

SparkPeopleChris - Jun 28, 2003 7:48 am (#80 Total: 84)


Hi Jeff

Thanks for inviting me to this event, sorry I'm late

Real good question about what will be a good driver for this online community compared to the transaction-driven eBay community.

I'm facing a similar issue, so I'll share some thoughts on this. At SparkPeople, we're trying to create an online community (and off-line ones) based on people reaching meaningful goals/personal development - in both for-profit and nonprofit settings. The model is that this will become a positive cycle where people reach goals and then as a way to reinforce their success they come back to help other people reach their goals. So far we've seen some signs of success of this model (for example, a woman in Texas reached some goals with us and has since posted over 2,000 messages on our site encouraging others to reach their goals - and she eventually wants to work with us). While I think it can work, there are some big hurdles:

1) Reaching a goal can take time, so the whole cycle is longer than a transaction.

2) Our society isn't very good at setting and reaching goals and instead focuses so much on the "quick fix", so there's a lot of education that needs to take place first.

Because of these reasons and others, it will be a huge challenge to reach critical mass for the community, but we're having fun trying! If anyone has any thoughts on this model, fire away.

When I think of all the incredible people involved here at Social Edge, it excites me to be a small part of this group. I love figuring out how to help good people get even better. Because of my personal experience and the people we've worked with, I strongly subscribe to the theory that even great people tap into only a small percentage of their true potential. I continue working to tap into more of my potential so I can help others do the same!

I look forward to being a part of this community. I subscribed to 2 discussions this morning, so hopefully I can help in a small way with the stickiness.

Adventure On!

Chris

Karen Nemsick - Jun 28, 2003 12:02 pm (#81 Total: 84)
Healing Waters


Sally,

there are some interesting responses in the CARE Act discussion thread under "Soapbox."

Here is my two-cents worth:

When I apply to foundations for grant support – and even when I ask individual donors for support – they want to see what percentage of our annual expenses are allocated for program costs and what percent goes to administrative costs and fundraising. The reason they ask is that many funders don’t want to fund administrative costs and salaries; they want their money to only go to direct program costs.

So why do foundations get to incorporate their salaries and administrative costs into their program expenses (the 5%)? No one wants to pay our salaries in the nonprofit sector; they just want to pay for the actual service. Foundations seem to get around this by incorporating their staff salaries and rents into their payout (program costs.) Is this fair? Is this hypocritical? Am I missing something in the equation?

Charles Cameron aka hipbone - Jun 28, 2003 10:26 pm (#82 Total: 84)
HipBone Games / Rheingold Associates




How can a man sleep, with his dream awake bside him?

mary - Jun 28, 2003 11:51 pm (#83 Total: 84)


I am excited about Social Edge for the wonderful opportunities that it offers for those that will be able to meet online, discuss and perhaps together resolve some issues that alone each felt were insurmountable. As a teacher I am also excited to use it in my classroom as a model for my students of a global community working together to solve worldwide issues. The comments of my students for the last two years have been increasingly disturbing regarding helping others in the world. I can now show them tangible evidence of adults throughout the world that do care about more than personal gain. Thanks Keely, Jeff and Sally! Mary

sally osberg - Jun 29, 2003 12:57 pm (#84 Total: 84)
CEO of Skoll Foundation


Mary, How inspiring to learn of your plans to use Social Edge as a teaching tool! Thanks so much for letting us know. Sally